"It's A Feel Thing"- Legit or B.S.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by bnutz

This post is going to be a bit of a rant, but I'd love to hear other players' feedback and experiences with this sort of thing...

I just got back from a recording session that I did for a guitarist friend of mine. He's a killer player, good songwriter and helluva guy. He insisted on paying me for the session even though I would have thrown him a freebie. This is someone I've gigged with for years in both cover bands and as a sideman in his own original project, so I'd played the songs I was to be recording. That said, when I get set up, I find out that the producer has very different ideas about how one particular song should be recorded.

I don't have any problem with this. I understand that what works live often doesn't work in the studio and visa-versa. I'm being paid to play bass, not produce the album. I could tell that he wasn't digging what I was doing, so I stopped for a bit to try and figure out exactly what he wanted. More on top of the beat? More behind the beat? Play with the kick drum? Play off the melody/rhythm guitar/keys?...

He, the producer, just kept saying "I don't know man, it's a feel thing." After going around and around for a bit, we hit on the right part and the rest of the session went fine, but I've heard other people say the same thing before, and it always drives me nuts. Fortunately today, everyone got a long the entire time, but I've been in situations where the person I was playing for started to get irritated that we all weren't on the same page, yet they are incabable of explaing what they want.

Is there some intangible vibe, feel, whatever? I tend to believe that given the right vocabulary any mystical groove can be broken down- From super vibey reggae, to pounding metal and everyting in between.

I play for a living and feel that reputation and demeanor (or "hang factor), are almost as important as ability and so I try never to unload on those writing the check at the end of the day, no matter how difficult it (they) may be...I'll leave that for cyberspace.

I'd love to know if anyone else has heard the "feel thing", or anything else like it.

Thanks for hearing me out,
b

He just didn't "connect" with what you were playing. That's hard to explain past "a feeling", well...without saying "I just don't like it " - and he's not there to like it but to produce it.

Ask him if he knows any basslines or players that he thought may put the right "feel" into the song or are similar. That might give you some more insight into what he's after.

Good luck!

[Shearstown]

I think saying "It's a feel thing" is fine if he's letting you find your groove for the track. But if he's looking for something specific, as a producer he should be able to tell you what he needs.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by Shearstown

I think saying "It's a feel thing" is fine if he's letting you find your groove for the track. But if he's looking for something specific, as a producer he should be able to tell you what he needs.

Yeah should. Not all people communicate as well as produce.

[KayCee]

Here's an approach that I sometimes use when a producer or composer can't seem to communicate their musical concepts in a clear way. Ask them to sing the bassline they're hearing in their head. Remind them that they don't have to sing it perfectly, or in tune, and that it might give a better idea of their concept.

It works about half the time. The other half, the "professional" musicians/producers that can't even hum a tune or tap out a feel on a tabletop....well, you're on your own at that point.

[tZer]

FEEL is real - but is a subjective term and can vary from person to person. Sometimes bands form because everyone "feels" the music in a similar way - they call that "chemistry". There is not a specific quality that 100% identifies what it is, other than to call it "FEEL".

As many has stated, many musicians have the same ability to play the same notes technically, but rarely will two executions of the same part by different players sound exactly the same.

Also - (citing the OP's tale) - on Monday the person complaining that the "feel" was not right very well could put that recording down for a week, revisit it the following Monday and suddenly find that the "feel" was actually dead on - and because he; A) Hadn't had his coffee yet - B) Just go finished listening to a great Steely Dan CD - C) Just finished a book about recording engineering and production... His ears, minds, feel-receptors were colored in such a way that he simply did not appreciate it at that moment.

Feel is real. But it is very hard to quantify because it is subjective. A really good producer is also an excellent communicator and can take an esoteric concept like "feel" and put it in terms that will make sense to the musicians he/she is working with.

As a player, it is very important to be aware that some people just do not express themselves very well when it comes to defining what they mean by "feel" and you should not take it personally. It can be frustrating when it seems that nothing, no matter what you try, seems to meet with their approval - but being broad and having technical chops that serve you well should give you the tools you need to explore various "feel" possibilities.

[LUSA]

[quote=KayCee;4110124]Here's an approach that I sometimes use when a producer or composer can't seem to communicate their musical concepts in a clear way. Ask them to sing the bassline they're hearing in their head. Remind them that they don't have to sing it perfectly, or in tune, and that it might give a better idea of their concept.



That works good. But it's better to hear it from the "musicians" you are playing with, not just a producer.

But watch out; I found myself at odds with a producer who was asking for one thing and demonstrating another lean on the musicians.....and I had a terrible time with the drummer who would never play the same lick twice. His rythyms were good, but he couldn't make up his mind what he was happy with. Drummers can be your best friend but when they start changing styles, it screws your playing up too.

[hbarcat]

The drummer I play with in our classic rock cover band has only been a drummer for 3 years and wasn't even a musician at all before that so he naturally is limited in what he can do. Because he likes a certain style of music (within the generic style of classic rock) he palys those songs with good "feel". For example, we can groove all day to Pink Floyd tunes because he really digs Nick Mason's style and he really "feels" how the kick, snare, toms, hi-hat, etc.. all exist in relation to each other and it then becomes obvious where my bass part fits in to that.

Since he isn't a fan of traditional blues as a style that negatively affects his playing of certain songs we want to do (like Eric Clapton or Bob Dylan songs) because his "feel" is wrong for those songs. From my experience in playing with small jazz combos, blues bands, heavy metal bands and others I can hear specifically what he's doing "wrong" with his drums that's messing up the feel of the song. The guitarist and I have been gradually explaining to him (he knows he lacks experience and is a willing listener to constructive criticism) how good groove is more complicated than just being 'on beat', 'behind the beat' or 'ahead of the beat', and we essentially just analyse every song that doesn't feel right for as many subtle details of performance such as the timing of all percussion parts as well as guitars and bass in relation to each other and to the dynamics, phrasing, and all the other latin-named performance qualities that we have a "feel" for from lots of experience.

Being able to vebally communicate that knowledge of "feel" is difficult, but it should be a vital skill of any good producer.