iv got the notes, but what key is it?

[beyondhairy]

hey there, im new to keys and scales and the such, and im having trouble figuring out what key im in or what scale i could use, especially with this one line i have written, the notes are:

C# - f - f# - a# - g - g#

so, what key is that? or what scale is it working off of?

and how can i find these things out on my own?

[miles mosley]

the thing is chief, depending on how you look at it, it could a number of things, all correct.
It could be that you're playing a Bb minor 7/Db chord with passing tones.

which SCALE it is??? i dunno, maybe someone has an answer for that,

it could be Db major chord to, but that's relative to what i said above.
It could be F#Maj

you'd need to have a bit more info to generalize the key

[BassmanDk]

Since you've written C# first i assume that's the note you use on the "1". The notes are not a normal scale since you have too many notes side-by-side so to speak aka chromatic. I'm referring to f - f# - g - g#. But then again i would see the g as a leading note ( the tritonus or flatten 5 if we have to get somewhat techical).
I'll leap in and say its C#6 chord meaning c# is the tonic, f the major third, f the fourth, g# the fivth(?) and the a#(or Bb) the major sixth.
As for useable scale, play your notes and maybe D#(second) and B (minor seventh) or C(in this case actually B#, the major seventh). It depends on the mood of the song. If it sounds right, it is right!

As for finding this out on your own, read some books, take some classes or ask a lot of q when you're with trained people (in theory that is!!)

Good luck.

[BassmanDk]

Originally Posted by miles mosley

the thing is chief, depending on how you look at it, it could a number of things, all correct.

Exactly!!!

Originally Posted by miles mosley

It could be F#Maj

Hmm a maj7 with both a small second and a normal second?
That would sound rather "outish". But then again if it sounds good...

Maybe the OP could get a guitarist or other chordinstrument to play these or more chords over his bassline and hear if he likes a particular chord?

[miles mosley]

yup F#maj would b kinda funny sounding hahahaha

[Pacman]

Without context, you can know nothing. It could be all those keys - depending on the chords being used. It could be just an 'out' riff, again depending on the context. Too little information.

[beyondhairy]

well this is something i wrote for a guitar track and this is the progression

E||----------------------------------------||------------|
B||----------------------------------------||------------|
G||*-------5-------------5----5/-6---5----*||--3-5-3-----|
D||*----3-------------3-----3-------------*||--------4-3-|
A||---4-------------4----------------------||------------|
D||----------------------------------------||------------|

if that helps

[Pacman]

That's not a progression - there's still not enough information. Timing, chords - where it's going, where it's coming from.

You also have to consider that it's not in any one key, that one scale will not work for all of it. This is where learning harmony can help you.

[beyondhairy]

Originally Posted by Pacman

This is where learning harmony can help you.

heh, yea, this line sounds good on its own, now adding a bass line is the tricky bit



but why/how would timing effect a series of notes?


and its not going or coming from anywhere yet, that repeats for a while heh. so some of this info and help here will help me out in letting me know where i could go

[JeffSki]

Originally Posted by beyondhairy

well this is something i wrote for a guitar track and this is the progression

E||----------------------------------------||------------|
B||----------------------------------------||------------|
G||*-------5-------------5----5/-6---5----*||--3-5-3-----|
D||*----3-------------3-----3-------------*||--------4-3-|
A||---4-------------4----------------------||------------|
D||----------------------------------------||------------|

if that helps

It looks to me as if the guitar is arpeggiating over a C#maj7 chord. The end part also looks to be in C#maj but I'd probably try a A#min or Fmin chord over it. That's about all I can offer from this though.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by beyondhairy

heh, yea, this line sounds good on its own, now adding a bass line is the tricky bit

actually, if you knew harmony, it would be far less tricky.

but why/how would timing effect a series of notes?

because it would lend clues to if the notes are passing tones, root tones, etc. Timing can give you a big clue as to the functions of each note.

and its not going or coming from anywhere yet, that repeats for a while heh. so some of this info and help here will help me out in letting me know where i could go

So what you've got is a riff, and you can figure out if the riff is changing implied chords, if it's just a series of notes, or if it's all one tonality. As a bassist, you can compliment this riff, or play against it. Since you don't understand what's going on harmonically, I'd suggest using your ear to guide you to what sounds best.

[mutedeity]

You could look at that group of notes as a scale if you want. The problem from a western tonal perspective is that it has no sense of "key" at all. There is no sense of where the dominant would be so there is no way to know how it resolves according to cadence. Mostly I would imagine that that group of notes would be considered a cluster of 6 tones where the function of the tritone is less strong than the other 5 tones.

I personally would have no problem considering that group of notes a 6 tone scale and writing counterpoint and harmony accordingly. On the other hand I wouldn't bother with trying to recognise the "key" beyond stating the root note and the relativism of each degree.

[Vic Winters]

I don't see where you got the G and G# out of that guitar part.

That guitar part seems to be all in C# major. *

[C#, E#, B#, C#, E#, B#, E#, B#, C#, B#] [ A#, B#, A#, F#, E#]

*Fixed

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Vic Winters

I don't see where you got the G and G# out of that guitar part.

That guitar part seems to be all in C major.

[C#, E#, B#, C#, E#, B#, E#, B#, C#, B#] [ A#, B#, A#, F#, E#]

You mean C# Major according to the notes you referenced.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

You could look at that group of notes as a scale if you want. The problem from a western tonal perspective is that it has no sense of "key" at all. .

As Jon said - it is about context and timing - so there could be a lot of chromatic passing notes in there, which are "confusing" a very straightforward line!

[Vic Winters]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

You mean C# Major according to the notes you referenced.

Yea, my bad. There are enough sharps in there to make up for it though.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

As Jon said - it is about context and timing - so there could be a lot of chromatic passing notes in there, which are "confusing" a very straightforward line!

Yes.

[edit] I should probably say a little more.

That is true, on the other hand what I am saying is all about context and timing as well. I just put a different persective on it and it doesn't really contradict anything anyone else said.

[Jim Carr]

c# - f - f# - a# - g - g# ??

Depends on context, yes. Also, if you want to call it F#major, the "spelling" of the notes would be different (6 sharps):

c# e# f# a# fx g# where x = double sharp

BTW, it could easily be heard as g# Major, which really doesn't exist in notation (usually). You could just drop "5 sharps" and make it:

c e f a f# g

--which actually makes the G major point of view more obvious. It all depends on rhythm and the rest of the context. However, if I play the above as quarters all alone, I can hear it as C major, with the F# as a passing tone to the 5th degree. It also reminds me of a theme from "Lieutenant Kijee Suite" by Prokofiev...hahaha...context!