I've never had a problem like this as a teacher

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #1 10-03-2007, 12:23 AM

Hi everybody.

I'd seriously like to know your opinions/advice on this situation. As some of you already know, I wear my bass pretty high. My reference point is that the middle part of the 22nd fret should match the point where the sternum ends. Something like this:

In my experience, it's the best position for those of us who slap the bass with the thumb parallel to the strings. Besides, there's less stress for the fretting hand. Now, with women the approach is a bit different since wearing the bass that high may feel uncomfortable because of their natural anatomy, so I always tell my new female students (haven't had so many) to wear the bass as high as they can without feeling uncomfortable.

That has worked OK (no big difference), but I started giving lessons to a new student yesterday, and frankly, I don't know what to do with her. She's a very good friend of mine (a viola player) and I had no problems telling her about the situation. She also allowed me to take some pictures for you to see what's happening (one image is worth a thousand words):

I think no further explanations are needed. It's the first time I have an student like that and there's a BIG difference here. Of course I don't work on slap techniques from the beginning, but her fretting hand will suffer a lot when playing one finger per fret on the first position. I told her "maybe you should look for a teacher with a different approach", but she insists on taking lessons with me.

Honestly, I'm like

. In all seriousness, How would you face this? Thank you in advance!

Hawaii Islander · #2 10-03-2007, 12:46 AM

Many people wear their basses lower with the body of the bass more at the level of the hip. To make this work well for the fingering, the neck is angled upward at an angle that is comfortable for the player. A classic example is Roger Glover from Deep Purple.

The audio is kind of junk but the illustration is pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDBtDsMli1E

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #3 10-03-2007, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaii Islander

Many people wear their basses lower with the body of the bass more at the level of the hip. To make this work well for the fingering, the neck is angled upward at an angle that is comfortable for the player. A classic example is Roger Glover from Deep Purple.

The audio is kind of junk but the illustration is pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDBtDsMli1E

I know, and that's why I suggested her to find another teacher. She must wear her bass really low to make it work like that since the upper horn presses her left breast when angled.

Infernal Affair · #4 10-03-2007, 01:05 AM

Maybe a different bass would work better for her? Does she feel a lot of discomfort in her left breast when holding the bass like in those pictures? Or do you actually want her to wear it as high as you have yours in your picture? I think she could be ok in a sitting position, but we don't play the bass sitting most of the time. Also, I'm not sure if wearing the bass lower would help 100% since that upper horn looks like it could jut into her left side anyway.

Jazz Ad · #5 10-03-2007, 01:11 AM

The pics make this thread very promising. BIG difference indeed.

Her bass is at belly height, it's not that low. Actually it's higher than most people normally wear their instrument. It shouldn't be that hard for an experienced teacher to help her adapting her technique.
That long upper horn might not be ideal either. She'd be better with something like a SG shape.
I would make her wear it even lower to go around her left breast and bring the neck upward as suggested.

Dave Muscato · #6 10-03-2007, 01:25 AM

Alvaro, I would recommend strongly against wearing your bass that high. You're going to get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in your right wrist if you bend it that much. Also, you lose strength in your fingers (not to mention gain numbness!) if you do that.

Watch this video for more info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc

Also, from page 3 of my "What I learned from a week at Berklee" thread (with pics):

What I learned from a week at Berklee

Bass Mule · #7 10-03-2007, 01:33 AM

Hmmm....
...maybe suggest a Steinberger

Yeah... in all seriousness, I dunno.

Honestly, I don't think you have to wear the bass that high for your fretting hand. If anything, I'd think it'd be too uncomfortable for your plucking hand.

AvE · #8 10-03-2007, 02:34 AM

Tell her to get a customized bass! ... A good builder can make every shape wich is most comfortable!

skaliwag66 · #9 10-03-2007, 05:00 AM

Sorry, but the minute i scrolled down I burst out laughing.

**Howlin' Hanson** · #10 10-03-2007, 05:30 AM

I wouldn't give her up as a student.

Your bass? Hers? New? A trade-in might be in order for a different body shape. Also wearing a few inches lower should actually be easier to play. You wear yours a lot higher than I would be comfortable with; my right wrist would not be happy in that positision.

Seriously, I would not give up on this student. (Trying to keep the topic serious.)

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #11 10-03-2007, 07:03 AM

Thank you so much for your input!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass Mule

Hmmm....
...maybe suggest a Steinberger

Exactly my first thought after seeing the situation. Unfortunately, it isn't that easy to get a Steinberger-type bass here. Besides, she's on a extremely low budget.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Alvaro, I would recommend strongly against wearing your bass that high. You're going to get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in your right wrist if you bend it that much. Also, you lose strength in your fingers (not to mention gain numbness!) if you do that.

Watch this video for more info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc

Also, from page 3 of my "What I learned from a week at Berklee" thread (with pics):

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...=342596&page=3

Thank you so much, Dave! Of course I know the Gary Willis instructional video (which he hates, BTW) and he's so right about keeping the wrist straight for avoiding that problem. I'm the first one who should work on that, although I must say (trying to minimize the potential problem) that I always make sure that I don't feel any tension or pain when bending my wrist. Actually, I don't feel like "bending my wrist" but just letting my hand "fall" (different, I think). Anyway, and as you said in the Berklee thread, that may lead to a short career. May this be the opportunity to adjust my technique.

Of course, she won't have that problem since she's forced to wear the bass low and I have nothing against that. What really worries me is her fretting hand using the OFPF technique on the lowest positions. I think the best option is Hawaii Islander's suggestion, so I'll try it and let you know what happens.

DocBop · #12 10-03-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Hi everybody.

I'd seriously like to know your opinions/advice on this situation. As some of you already know, I wear my bass pretty high. My reference point is that the middle part of the 22nd fret should match the point where the sternum ends. Something like this:

In my experience, it's the best position for those of us who slap the bass with the thumb parallel to the strings. Besides, there's less stress for the fretting hand. Now, with women the approach is a bit different since wearing the bass that high may feel uncomfortable because of their natural anatomy, so I always tell my new female students (haven't had so many) to wear the bass as high as they can without feeling uncomfortable.

That has worked OK (no big difference), but I started giving lessons to a new student yesterday, and frankly, I don't know what to do with her. She's a very good friend of mine (a viola player) and I had no problems telling her about the situation. She also allowed me to take some pictures for you to see what's happening (one image is worth a thousand words):

I think no further explanations are needed. It's the first time I have an student like that and there's a BIG difference here. Of course I don't work on slap techniques from the beginning, but her fretting hand will suffer a lot when playing one finger per fret on the first position. I told her "maybe you should look for a teacher with a different approach", but she insists on taking lessons with me.

Honestly, I'm like

. In all seriousness, How would you face this? Thank you in advance!

Playing higher is better to reduce wrist strainand potential for injury later on. I think the answer is up to the student, but you may want to pass the link below to one of Lydia's video. Lydia plays her bass high and is a monster player and slapper. Lydia is a bass player in Europe in a Level 42 tribute band. I think seeing the video will politely show a woman can play a bass high, but bottom line is what's comfortable for her.

Lydia on bass

tswd · #13 10-03-2007, 09:22 AM

Try to have her not hold the bass across the front of her, but hold it more angled out, almost like shooting a shotgun from the hip. So, the upper horn would be going between her breasts as she angled the neck up.

Similar to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5XeVLJeMdE

Just a thought.

Dr. Cheese · #14 10-03-2007, 09:48 AM

Alvaro, did she actually say strapping the bass on high was uncomfortable?

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #15 10-03-2007, 11:18 AM

Thank you again for your input, guys! I really appreciate it. That video from Lydia is very cool, DocBop! I'm going to show it to her.

Dr. Cheese: Yes, man. According to her, she couldn't stand having the bass pressing her breast all the time.

vbass29 · #16 10-03-2007, 11:25 AM

I can't say I've ever had much of a problem, I just play my bass lower. I got used to having to adjust from playing upright where the both the hips and breasts get in the way.

You can see that I just keep the bass lower with a more sever angle up. I have no problem moving aroud or getting full pressure with my left hand.

rduckwor · #17 10-03-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tswd

Try to have her not hold the bass across the front of her, but hold it more angled out, almost like shooting a shotgun from the hip. So, the upper horn would be going between her breasts as she angled the neck up.

Similar to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5XeVLJeMdE

Just a thought.

This would be my idea as well. Note on the Lydia videos, her bass is high, but not "squared off" across the front of her body. The bass is angled to her right with the body of the bass moving more towards her back.

DocBop · #18 10-03-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Thank you again for your input, guys! I really appreciate it. That video from Lydia is very cool, DocBop! I'm going to show it to her.

Dr. Cheese: Yes, man. According to her, she couldn't stand having the bass pressing her breast all the time.

Lydia has put up some more videos lately. The Girl has it going on singing and playing great.

Lydia Friends video

steve66 · #19 10-03-2007, 06:59 PM

Are all basses uncomfortable? How does it feel when she is sitting down and playing the bass. You probably will have to find a common ground. Maybe a different bass with a smaller top horn design.

phippsyg · #20 10-03-2007, 07:09 PM

That must have looked so suss standing there taking photos of her boobies!

Really though being a boobless man I have no real advice. Would have to be the first bass lesson I've heard of that went -
"Here I'll take a photo of your boobs and put them on the internet"
"Sure no Problem"
Sorry for wasting space here with my immaturity.
I guess she can only go with what is comfortable. What works for one person isn't always the best for another.