Jamerson Question

[sflajimmy]

Ok I'm on a mission to learn Jamerson's lines. I'm starting with "It's The Same Old Song" and while I think know this answer I'm going to ask anyway: Does he use mostly open strings in the opening bars? In particular the D & A. I know from what I've read it's part of his style to use a lot of open strings, I just find it sounds better for me to shift and use fretted notes (I know I need to practice it more).

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by sflajimmy

Ok I'm on a mission to learn Jamerson's lines. I'm starting with "It's The Same Old Song" and while I think know this answer I'm going to ask anyway: Does he use mostly open strings in the opening bars? In particular the D & A. I know from what I've read it's part of his style to use a lot of open strings, I just find it sounds better for me to shift and use fretted notes (I know I need to practice it more).

check out jamersons hook on youtube......he seems to know a lot about jamerson technique

[TimoMetzemakers]

Well, I wasn't there in the Snake Pit when Jamerson recorded that line, but I have a DB background like him, and I would most definitely play that intro with open strings. That's just what you would do on DB.

[Lichtaffen]

I recently learned that song and I'd have to say that it definitely is in the open position. Also, pay particular attention to 'raking' your finger up from one string to another. He did that a lot. At first it may be awkward and imprecise, but as you learn to control it, it is a nice effect.

Do you have the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" book?

[sflajimmy]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

I recently learned that song and I'd have to say that it definitely is in the open position. Also, pay particular attention to 'raking' your finger up from one string to another. He did that a lot. At first it may be awkward and imprecise, but as you learn to control it, it is a nice effect.

Do you have the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" book?

Yes and I've been using the transcriptions and CD from it. I did notice a lot of opportunity to "rake" and I figured he does that quite a bit considering he only used his index finger....amazing. Jimmy Haslip plays the song on the CD but only plays a few bars of it. I'm assuming that there isn't much variation from that considering how little of it is transcribed and played on the CD. Thanks for the input. It will just take some practice as usual.

[CrackerJackLee]

[another Jamerson fan here]: I've read where Jamerson refused to clean his strings "to keep the funk in". Well, if your strings are really clean, new, round wound and smaller gauge, then the ringing open string tones will sound noticeably different from the stopped tones. But Jamersons strings, being "funked", would sound very similar whether they are played open or stopped, especially if they are old. Also, his Precision bass had a rubber strip glued to the bridge cover that just touched the strings enough to stop open-string ring. As most upright bass players, he was an artist when it came to open strings to drop in notes, keep in tune, and use dead thumping notes. If you check out "Marvin Gaye "What's Going On / What's Happening Brother"" on YouTube at 1:23, 2:24, 2:55, and 7:49, you can see his single index finger "Hook" style pizzicato, just forward of the pickups, and perhaps how he used his thumb to mute open strings. Also, according to Bob Babbitt, he had a light touch with his plucking - especially to allow raking - and I'm sure the B15N Ampeg and heavy gauge LaBella strings had a big say in his tone, too. Many will try to sound like James Jamerson, but no one will duplicate him as a lot of his sound was based on his personal reaction to the music he was immersed in. Anyway, he died too young. After Jamerson, Motown morphed into something completely different. It's ironic that his bubbling, velvet like bass lines last forever while all the pop and slap schtick that replaced him is basically unusable in ensemble playing - unless one wants to be the star woodpecker all night.

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by CrackerJackLee

Jamersons strings, being "funked", would sound very similar whether they are played open or stopped, especially if they are old. Also, his Precision bass had a rubber strip glued to the bridge cover that just touched the strings enough to stop open-string ring.

Hmm. I have a "funked" p with foam mutes & I have to say, the open strings do sound a lot like the fretted strings.

[sflajimmy]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Hmm. I have a "funked" p with foam mutes & I have to say, the open strings do sound a lot like the fretted strings.

I knew about how he had his P set up and I have no idea why I didn't consider that when I thought of how the open strings sound. Duh....

[basskopf]

try the jamerson biography too, standing in the shadows of motown. includes two CD's with lots of transcriptions. not sure if your tune is in there, but if you really want to learn jamerson's lines.... also search you tube for "arcellus", he plays lots of jamerson tunes.

[TheFrogPrince]

Jamerson came from upright jazz bass playing. Ask the upright guys on the double bass forum how they play, especially if they're older cats. One thing I have picked-up from reading annecdotes about Jamerson, as his action was so high and if he did indeed play softly his volume would probably be turned up fairly high. That would allow him to control dynamics with his hands.

[CrackerJackLee]

YouTube's "arcellus" and "jamersonshook" are outstanding. also "The R&B Bass Masters" with CD by Ed Friedland is an excellent book giving examples of Jamerson, Weeks, Hood, Rainey, Jemmott, Cogbill, Collins, Porter, Dunn, and Baker. Except they left out Carole Kaye (especially for bassists who use or sometimes use a plectrum) who played on recordings for the Supremes. And of course for the Beach Boys.

[CrackerJackLee]

Google Search "YouTube Bob Babbitt with Phil Jones - Part 3"
Bob Babbitt, another Motown bassist not in Friedland's book, discusses some interesting points about the Motown Sound pertaining to bass and Jamerson. if you view it, what do you all think of the equipment that he's using, tonewise? i'm in the market for the Ampeg 8x10 cab, but i've always played a 2x15 Kustom cab. Babbitt's playing through an army of 5 inch speakers (??!!)

[Cy_Miles]

There are no open strings in "Same Old Song".
I have worked on it for a few months and am just now able to make it through the song without my fingers crumpling. It is a #@# work out to be sure.

I know because I have been learning that song along with 3 or 4 dozen other Jamerson lines.

One could maybe fake a bass line with open strings that would not be such a bear, but I want to learn it the way Jamerson did.

I highly reccomend Hal Leanord's 'Motown Bass Classics - The Recorded Version' Bass tab book.
Also find the book version of "In the shadows of mowtown" It has dozens of transcripts plus two cds of top bass players playing Jamerson lines.

I love Jamerson lines because some are bass 101 you could teach some one on their first lesson like "Dancin in the Streets" or "People Get Ready", and then there are tricky single line dance hooks like "Mickeys Monkey" or "Contract on Love". And then there are PHD level bass lines in songs like "Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing" or "I'm Wondering"

[CrackerJackLee]

YouTube postings are great for jamming along with. I came across "Funk Brothers / Four Tops - It's The Same Old Song Inst".
By following Jamerson's bassline by ear in the key of C, open string position, I found the following fingering not only most comfortable (just two fingers), but the most toneful with the help of three open strings:
NB: Nashville Notation

Intro 4x:
123 6 656______play 2,6 open
or
cde a aga______play d,a open

Verse:
123 61 656______play 2,6 open
123 61 656______play 2,6 open
234 2 232_______play 2 open
456 2 567 5_____play 2,5 open
or
cde ac aga______play d,a open
cde ac aga______play d,a open
def d ded_______ play d open
fga d gab g______play d,g open

Chorus:
123 61 656______play 2,6 open
567 5 525_______play 5,2 open
234 2 262_______play 2,6 open
567 5 456 2_____play 5,2 open
or
cde ac aga______play d,a open
gab g gdg_______play g,d open
def d dad________play d,a open
gab g fga d______play g,d open

This bass line in the open position is far more enjoyable to play - and there's little shifting or gymnastics required. Mostly the index and middle fingers (or middle and ring depending on preference).No wonder upright bassists stay with open strings.

[cire113]

JAMERSON IS KING.

[Chris K]

Hey Cracker, great contributions, thanks!

[JimmyM]

Jamerson was king, but he's dead now, so you might as well not marry yourself to the way he did things. We do a bunch of Motown in my band, and if I played one song the same way he did I'd be surprised. Yet it works. Play it the way you feel and don't get too wrapped up in the minutiae.

[CrackerJackLee]

"Jamerson was king, but he's dead now, so you might as well not marry yourself to the way he did things."

???
Well...
Some of us 'ol guys, see...We were "there" when it happened. That's why it's now called Old School, you see...Old School. We like it just as he played it. The more of Jamerson's basslines that I analyse, the more I improve. And it makes me happy to listen to those great records and it's satisfying to play along. Later, my playing wanders off and I improvise my own impression of Motown, but not on stage.
And if I want to marry Jamerson's bass lines, that's my business. One thing you can count on - I don't care to hear JimmyMotown. What are you trying to sell, anyway? I'm already stocked up on advice.

[bassybill]

I just watched "Standing in the Shadows of Motown". Great music, great bass playing. But I did have to go and listen to the Beatles right after it, as an antidote, maybe.

[cire113]

we are all gonna die someday... thats why jamerson is still king

i doubt anyone will remember me