Japanese-sounding harmony

[CrazyArcher]

I've thought a lot lately what scale J-Rock/J-Pop utilizes, and consequently, what makes a piece (or merely a section f it) sound characteristically 'Japanese'. Unfortunately, my understanding in theory is limited, and I didn't succeed to find an ultimate answer. I've analyzed a couple of pieces with GuitarPro, and what seems to do the click is 'Spanish 8-tone scale'. Can anyone sa someting more specific?

[Deacon_Blues]

I thought the major pentatonic scale made the japanese sound (in C: C-D-E-G-A-C), but I don't have any real experience from it (EDIT: with "it" I meant the japanese music, not the pentatonic scale ). It would be interesting to see other comments on the subject.

[mambo4]

I am not too familiar with the genre, but my understanding of j-pop/j-rock is that it's harmonically the same as western pop music...

[meev992]

Originally Posted by CrazyArcher

I've thought a lot lately what scale J-Rock/J-Pop utilizes, and consequently, what makes a piece (or merely a section f it) sound characteristically 'Japanese'.

U listen to Jrock enough, you start noticing how japanese bass players learn to make their lines. That's all I can say...been listening to Jrock since before it became popular.

Just listen to Gazette for a while, and you'll know everything there is to know about popular japanese rock, hahaha.

[Infernal Affair]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I am not too familiar with the genre, but my understanding of j-pop/j-rock is that it's harmonically the same as western pop music...

It is. There's nothing particularly different from Japanese rock and pop music as far as song structure, melody, harmony, etc. unless they incorporate Eastern influences like Enka.

[Marcus]

There's nothing inherently different about theory in popular Japanese music.

A lot of the guys are (one can assume) trained musicians that are putting their knowledge to work.

If you listen to L'Arc~En~Ciel for example, Tetsu really loves to play certain scale patterns for melodic effect. Clearly he also knows where every note is on the fretboard, as he often likes to move up and down the neck. Something as recent as "Anemone" really demonstrates this quite nicely.

For some interesting Japanese bass lines, I would suggest checking out the following if you are not familiar with these already...

L'Arc~En~Ciel - Anemone
L'Arc~En~Ciel - Blurry Eyes
Gazette - Tokyo Shinjuu
Gackt - Asrun Dream
Gackt - Dears
Malice Mizer - Gekka no Yasoukyuoku
Malice Mizer - Au Revoir
Luna Sea - Rosier
Dir en grey - Yurameki
Dir en grey - Cage
Dir en grey - Yokan
Nightmare - Dasei Boogie

Please PM me if you ever want to talk about Japanese rock!

P.S. Never go to Japan to buy new CDs. That is unless you are willing to spend $30 a pop.

[mutedeity]

Traditional East-Asian music, including Japanese and Chinese music is mostly based on 5 tone pentatonics. This type of music is based more on melody than harmony, though.

Most commonly you will find that the scales are either what we know as major or minor pentatonics. However the Japanese traditional piece "Sakura" or "Cherry Blossom" is based on the kuomi scale which has the degrees {1,2,b3,5,b6}.

[HaVIC5]

Chinese music tends to align itself more towards the traditional Western minor/major pentatonic pitch collections (with some exceptions of course). Japanese music is slightly different and uses slightly different scales, but the pentatonic flavor is still there.

BTW, I'm pretty sure kumoi is 1 2 b3 5 b6 (not natural 6)

[mutedeity]

Sorry, typo. Well spotted and fixed.

[scullionj]

Being part Japanese myself and having lived in Japan for 10 years, I always felt that in addition to many of those qualities which have been previously mentioned by other posters, J-rock and visual kei tends to have a very distinctive and precise sound. The players are often right on the beat and it can sound quite produced and 'clean'. If anyone is familiar with the popular anime Death Note recently released in America, the theme song of the first season (Perfect World//Nightmare) is exactly what I'm talking about. There is also a very heavy romantic sound and theme, like in X Japan's Art of Life.

I think what it honestly REALLY comes down to, though...is singing in Japanese. Or in English that sounds like a Japanese person saying. I'm not stereotyping or anything, but that's honestly what they'll do quite a bit.

[meev992]

Originally Posted by scullionj

There is also a very heavy romantic sound and theme, like in X Japan's Art of Life.

I agree with the rest of your post, you articulated the topic well.

On a side note, I would like to say that I've only listened to Art of Life...ONCE in my entire life!

There's no way I'm going to try to listen to that 30 minute song again

[Infernal Affair]

Originally Posted by scullionj

I think what it honestly REALLY comes down to, though...is singing in Japanese. Or in English that sounds like a Japanese person saying. I'm not stereotyping or anything, but that's honestly what they'll do quite a bit.

Yeah. In the early days of Japanese rock many Japanese artists sang like English speaking artists. It wasn't considered "cool" to sing with Japanese phrasing until maybe... the 80s? (don't quote me on the date, but it was later on). This has happened with Japanese hip hop as well, where groups were often shoehorning English into their phrases, but there's several groups who rap in Japanese and use Japanese linguistics to great effect. On a sidenote, the singer of one of my favorite Japanese bands, eastern youth, sings in an archaic form of Japanese (think Shakespearean English) that comes across quite beautifully. Very powerful delivery.

Many of American fans of "J-Rock" tend to emphasize the visual kei subgenre, thereby making the two synonymous. However, visual kei has not been popular in Japan for a very long time, and it mostly underground now. Many of the visual kei artists who were big in the 90s have since moved onto other things, and visual kei itself was more concerned with the way the band looked than the actual sound. Sure, there were a few similar characteristics, such as an operatic, bombastic sound (contributed mostly to the vocalist with many trilled notes) and layered, echoed effect. But luna sea, Buck-Tick, X-Japan, l'arc en ciel, Kuroyume, etc. all sounded very different from each other. And this particular similarity has more to to with classical music influences than anything, which is western.

There's a lot of great Japanese groups out there with musical landscape just as diverse as ones in the US and other countries. In fact, some of these groups are more popular in the US than they are in Japan. Noise groups like Afrirampo or the hardcore outfit envy come to mind. Though I haven't contributed to the website in awhile, check out keikaku.net. I'm one of the staff writers.

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by Infernal Affair

Many of American fans of "J-Rock" tend to emphasize the visual kei subgenre, thereby making the two synonymous.
There's a lot of great Japanese groups out there with musical landscape just as diverse as ones in the US and other countries.

+1

Something else I notice is the tendency for some to think that all Japanese music sounds as good as -insert their favorite J-Rock band here- when that simply is not the truth. Just like in other places, pop dominates the music landscape. Not to put too fine a point on it, but just like elsewhere, Japanese pop is irritating.

[meev992]

If one wants great music, how about some of the Jazz musicians from Japan? They're phenomenal.

[HEIST]

Originally Posted by scullionj

Being part Japanese myself and having lived in Japan for 10 years, I always felt that in addition to many of those qualities which have been previously mentioned by other posters, J-rock and visual kei tends to have a very distinctive and precise sound. The players are often right on the beat and it can sound quite produced and 'clean'. If anyone is familiar with the popular anime Death Note recently released in America, the theme song of the first season (Perfect World//Nightmare) is exactly what I'm talking about. There is also a very heavy romantic sound and theme, like in X Japan's Art of Life.

I think what it honestly REALLY comes down to, though...is singing in Japanese. Or in English that sounds like a Japanese person saying. I'm not stereotyping or anything, but that's honestly what they'll do quite a bit.

The Nightmare song is 'the WORLD' not 'Perfect World' in case anyone is looking it up.

[scullionj]

Originally Posted by HEIST

The Nightmare song is 'the WORLD' not 'Perfect World' in case anyone is looking it up.

Oh you're right. Sorry about that everyone! I was thinking of the last line of the song.

[scullionj]

Originally Posted by meev992

If one wants great music, how about some of the Jazz musicians from Japan? They're phenomenal.

Hiromi Uehara is quite incredible on the piano and keyboard.

[Mjordan]

Originally Posted by scullionj

Hiromi Uehara is quite incredible on the piano and keyboard.

I agree. Her piano is amazing. Check her out on youtube.

There is one Japanese bassist I know, Kouichi Osamu. He plays both electric, and double bass. He's a big fan of Jaco, and he played Donna Lee on double bass(solo bass with percussion). It is amazing.

[uethanian]

Originally Posted by meev992

If one wants great music, how about some of the Jazz musicians from Japan? They're phenomenal.

haha not to say that there arent good jazzers from japan...but i've heard quite a few bands that cannot swing at all