jazz solos?

[dan1215]

hey so im not asking about double bass jazz solos, im talking about modern day electric jazz bass solos, like in this youtube video (ironic how it was found on this site, right?).

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JMQup_N3A3A&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JMQup_N3A3A&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

(if that doesnt work heres the link--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMQup_N3A3A)

I want to learn how to play like tal wilkenfeld did in this video
(preferably starting at :34)? maybe even if someone has tabs to that i would except that too lol.

[MarkTAW]

Study your modes.

There's a lot of quick runs from point A to point B where she hits every note on the way, and then jumps to point C for some variations on runs (added intervals, chords, etc.) to point D and so on.

Just start picking modes & improvising in them.

[tomvelsor]

diddnt listen to the video, dont need to, i know how she plays..

thats the thing about jazz. your speaking fluently throughout each chord..unlike rock/blues where you dont really have to think a whole lot..ideally, you dont need to think when playing melodic jazz lines either- however, it takes years of playing with a lot of thinking in order to get to that level where it just flows without any concious thought of what your doing.

to sum it up, learn your modes, study them, and play your ass off for several years..

[DocBop]

I'll tell you what Marcus Miller would say... Transcribe, transcribe, transcribe and study and analyze each transcription.

Seeing who Tal has played with so far at such a young age I would she has done a lot of transcribing and has developed a hell of an ear. Since she started as a guitar player I would say she has a good knowledge of chords and chord/scale relationships. There are few way to approach learning to solo and over time good player go through all of them, but most important is transcribing, recording changes and practicing the various methods over the changes. After years of that you learn to stop thinking and let your ear and your heart say what they want thru your instrument.

Also improvisation is the same no matter what the instrument or style. In fact learning the basics of Walking bass like a DB player is a great intro to improvisation you use the same resources you just phrase differently. You'll find Jazz player will study improv with teachers that don't even play the same instrument.

[onlyclave]

I'd like to post something contrary to every "How do I solo over jazz changes?" thread on here:

Who cares what modes to use? Really?

Tal Wilkenfeld sounds cool because of her phrasing and rhythmic choices. She sounds a lot like Otiel Burbridge and if you listen to her solo in this video it's fairly generic note choices (some mixolydian here and there, a couple of blue notes) but it's her sense of rhythm that makes it sound cool. She could be playing nothing but roots and 5ths and it would sound good because of that.

Flame on, people.

[Pacman]

onlyclave - right on there. It goes hand in hand with Victor's "The Music Lesson". There are 10 elements of music (arbitrarily) - notes being only one. Takes a lot more than notes to make a solo sound good.

[WJGreer]

I recommend studying and learning the changes to a few jazz standards, but then, and more importantly, also learn the heads. As bass players we tend to ignore the heads, but usually they are an excellent outline of what works harmonically over the changes.

If you listen to a few jazz solos, on any instrument, you might often notice that for the first chorus or so, the soloist plays a melody that is similar to, or derivative of, the head. This works as a habit because:

• It gives the audience something to conceptually grab onto as the beginning of the story in the solo
• It gives the soloist a baseline of harmonic interplay with the changes, and gives him/her the ability to expand upon that as the solo progesses
• If the solo is a bass solo, referencing the head will keep the other band members from losing the form as easily

Good luck!

[MarkTAW]

To me it sound like she's running scales & using rhythm & note choice to keep it interesting - blue notes, passing tones, overall tonal shape (defining the tonal centers, tension & release points, etc.), intervalic leaps & rhythm.

It's not especially melodic (not something you'd be humming for the rest of the day), so I don't think it's really a "transcribe lots of lines" thing. I also don't think it was especially in line with the "chords" being laid down underneath, so it's not a "learn to play the changes" kind of thing.

It is a lot of "I hit every note before, how do I mix it up? Let's try ascending by thirds. Now let's try different launching & landing points. Now let's try lower on the neck. Now some chords. Now using fewer notes. Now something melodic. Now vary the rhythm." etc. But underlying all that is a very, very strong knowledge of the fretboard.

The #1 thing the OP can do to sound like that is to get a real strong knowledge of the fretboard - learning scales in lots of positions so that if you're playing in C up at the 15th fret, you can decide to start down by the 7th to vary things w/o getting confused.

I'm not saying it's strictly modal. What I am saying is that a strong knowledge of the fretboard is a prerequisite - learn major & minor scale shapes & learn where you can add or remove notes to give it character. Learning modes is a good jumping off point to start getting an a) knowledge of the fretboard and b) a feel for where you can change your note choices to give the solo character.

From there, the OP could start experimenting stylistically with rhythm, note choice, intervals, etc. to bring his personality to the solo.

I did, admittedly, assume that the OP would "get" the rhythmic feel eventually, but absolutely that should be practiced, I probably shouldn't have assumed he would "get" it if he hasn't been listening to or practicing that style of music.

With the click, play sixteenths, but not straight sixteenths.

Eighths:
one and two and three and four and

Sixteenths:
one ee and ah two ee and ah three ee and ah four ee and ah

This is just a way to subdivide the rhythm. Kick drum is on one & three, snare drum is on two and four.

With a click start practicing the offbeats, varying which offbeat you emphasize each time. One day practice "AND one and two and three and four AND one and two..." Another day practice "one EE and a two ee and ah three EE and ah four EE and ah." It's a Karate Kid sort of exercise where you do it until it gets ingrained and then it just starts coming out of you naturally.

Also play a jazz bass with the bridge pickup solo'd or emphasized or at least play down by the bridge. That very sharp attack lends itself to that style of playing very well. A music man bass would lend itself to a similar, but not quite the same, style of play.

FWIW, what I think Marcus was doing was much more fluid and impressive whereas what she was doing was more "kanoodling."

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

I'd like to post something contrary to every "How do I solo over jazz changes?" thread on here:

Who cares what modes to use? Really?

Talk Wilkenfeld sounds cool because of her phrasing and rhythmic choices. She sounds a lot like Otiel Burbridge and if you listen to her solo in this video it's fairly generic note choices (some mixolydian here and there, a couple of blue notes) but it's her sense of rhythm that makes it sound cool. She could be playing nothing but roots and 5ths and it would sound good because of that.

Flame on, people.

When becoming a Master of anything there is the Seeker stage and then the Revealer stage and most keep repeating that process. So at some point your are studying modes along with all the other approaches. Then you keep what worked for you out of that approach and the others. Then you combine them for your approach. There is nothing new only new way of combining things. Same with transcribing. As Herbie Hancock once said... Transcribe everyone you can learn from all the masters, then forget it all and play.


Also I HIGHLY recommend the book Pacman mentioned, Victor Wooten's The Music Lesson. I've swapped emails with Victor and Kai Eckhart the topic and would add to the list. Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner, Zen of Guitar by Phillip Sudo and Free Play by Stephen Nachmanovitch. But everyone should read Victor's book so much insight.

[Corporate Boy]

Originally Posted by DocBop

I'll tell you what Marcus Miller would say... Transcribe, transcribe, transcribe and study and analyze each transcription.

I am not really a fan of Macrus Miller's style, BUT I respect him as a master. I actually don't know a lot about him, but just earlier this week I was wondering how much he actually transcribed. The throught was sparked by a little clip I saw from the Macrus Miller DVD that was recently release. He does an amazing replicationg of the intro to So What from Kind of Blue before launching into a signature Miller funk take on the song. I always thougt that little intro was the coolest thing on that album besides Blue and Green. The chord voicing are so cool. After seeing that little clip, even without knowing about him, it makes complete sense that Miller is big advocate of transcription. Ironically a couple years ago I met him between sets during his tour with Stanely Clark. I had his attention for a brief second and asked him what was one song that everyone should transcribe. He said Panther from the Sun Don't Lie. Man, I love that melody on that song.

Anyway… there is a lot of aspects to learning jazz. In some cases it appears to come naturally to some people. I am not one of those and I think most people don't fall into that boat. The good jazz players all have put a lot of time into it. While in college I did the jazz combo and big band thing, but I wasn't a music major and I barely could keep up with it. It felt like I would never be able to become profocient at playing jazz, but I was wrong and I am finally breaking new barriers 10 years latter. So never give up. I couldn't play jazz if I casually listen to it. Transcibing helps a lot. I found a guitar player I get together with weekly to practice standards. That realy helped out. Working in the duo means I focus more on my playing. Some combos and definitely Big bands the focus is more on the complete arrangement. As a duo we are constantly bouncing theory ideas off each other. We can stop and discuss nit picky things without feeling like we are holding up the whole band, stuff like chord voicings or how to resolve a chord progression. Plus it is an opportunity for me to learn and perform a bunch of heads. Playing in a duo offers bigger challenges of playing a variety of jazz styles and tempos to keep it interesting. Anyway…I am getting distracted and I am not sure if this rant was helpful, but actively listen to jazz a lot and find places to jam with people. You are what you listen too.