just entering the world of Bass

[the_hook]

A brief history:

My son really took to drums a few months ago and I have him in lessons, and after a few weeks, and with his still brimming enthusiasm, I bought him a Pearl EX set.

I've been learning and playing with him (bought some books and DVDs for myself), and have had the opportunity to jam with a guitarist/singer doing some classic rock tunes and recently some Black Sabbath songs.

I'm learning drums far faster than I expected, and I've learned to read drum sheet music (which I was truly afraid I could not learn as it looked like jibberish to me). I understand drum music enough that when we select songs to jam with, after I deconstruct the drum tracks (to a certain degree), I write out the music so I can repeat playing it each practice session and then at the jams.

Eventually though my son will want to jam on drums with us, which will leave me without drums to play. I had the idea to learn rythym guitar and picked up an old guitar we had stored away, and along with some DVDs a friend bought me I set to learning it.

I can't get into the guitar playing. I respect the instrument and people that can make it sing (like my jamming partner) but my heart keeps getting drawn to the Bass. I like the fat strings and ample space between each string, and I like the deep sound and how you can lay out a solid groove with the drums.

I never much paid attention to the the bass playing in rock songs, but lately I've been really listening to the bass lines in Led Zepplin, Sabbath, RUSH, the Who, Cream, etc. and I'm amazed at how cool the bass sound is. I've also listened to some Funk (James Brown, Sly Stone, Parliament) and Jazz to get a different flavour for it.

My plan is to buy a Bass guitar soon (looking at the SX models). My goal is to play along with the classic rock songs and the Sabbath stuff we're learning now, and eventually some Funk.

Due to timing at this point I'd prefer to learn some quick basics for Rock Bass but I also want to learn music theory along with that because I want to understand what I'm doing and why.

I have no cash for a teacher at this point, but next winter I may have enough for some lessons. Where should I start? I find I'm more of a visual learner and DVDs with books work better for me than just books with a CD. Thanks.

[Mushroo]

Hi there Mr. Hook, welcome to Talkbass! I don't have any specific books or DVDs to recommend (I started with a teacher personally), but I just wanted to give some words of encouragement. It sounds like you already have a good ear for rhythm, which is the most important thing. An SX bass will be just fine for you, and aren't you lucky you have a drummer to practice with!

Okay, I lied, I will recommend one book to you. It's called "Standing in the Shadows of Motown," and it has transcriptions of James Jamerson's Motown bass lines. A lot of the material might be too advanced for a beginner, but definitely check it out when you are feeling up to the challenge. Even on the more advanced stuff, you could handle a 1- or 2-measure phrase (rather than tackle the entire song), start slow, and loop it over and over again. It will teach you how to syncopate rhythms and how to work with the drummer. Good luck!

[Depth_Charge]

Welcome to the deep end!

I recommend that you start with this technique oriented video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc

Good luck with it!

[the_hook]

Well I received my first new bass guitar; an SX model. A friend helped me set it up and put new strings on it.

I tried to learn guitar for a few weeks (using DVDs) but it never really gelled with me. But the bass is another animal. I've been practicing on it for a few evenings and I'm totally into it.

I love the physical aspect of playing it, just like the drums where you physically get involved with playing. I'm going to totally dig learning bass...

[MarkTAW]

Standing in the Shadows of Motown (SITSOM) is way too advanced for a beginner, though the text is a great, entertaining read.

There's a lot of great advice scattered all over this forum, but it may take a while to digest it all.

I find that lots of drummers learn by watching DVDs. I think it's easier to sit there & rewind and copy the DVD for drums than it is for bass for some reason. Sorry, I don't have any DVD recommendations for you.

For now, learn the notes on the bass & learn the major & minor scales. That will take you up to a certain minimum that would allow you to ask more meaningful questions of the community.

[the_hook]

I checked out a local music store, looking for Sabbath bass music, they had none, only had the guitar ones.

In the absence of bass material, do guys buy the guitar music, get the chords and figure out the basslines from that?

[DudeistMonk]

In the absence of bass material, do guys buy the guitar music, get the chords and figure out the basslines from that?

I would say thats one of the best ways to pick up new material, gives you a bass-is (couldn't resist the pun) from which to learn a new song by ear, so your training you ear, getting some theory, learning what the guitarist is doing, and its a bit easier than just jumping into a song.

Also if you can't figure out a bass line to a song if you have the chords you can just come up with your own, even if you are just playing roots to the rhythm (roots are the notes that are the on the bottom of a chord and what the bass most often plays, especially on the first beat of each measure, so Cmaj7 the root is C, Am the root is A).

For a lot of black sabbath stuff you are going to be playing mostly roots (paraniod) with a few riffs that usually double the guitar (Iron Man) and of course there are fills and variations, but you don't need to know those just to play. The standard formula for rock bass is 8th notes playing the root of the chord with some other notes thrown in toward the end to lead you toward the root of the next chord.

There are a lot of bass tabs (those little line and number depictions of how to play songs) on the net and a lot of guitar chord charts on the net too...bass tabs tend to be wrong a lot, chord charts being more popular tend to be right more often...I like to check them against each other, chances are if two people have a similar tab up its right.

[Martin Bormann]

Originally Posted by the_hook

A brief history:

My son really took to drums a few months ago and I have him in lessons, and after a few weeks, and with his still brimming enthusiasm, I bought him a Pearl EX set.

I've been learning and playing with him (bought some books and DVDs for myself), and have had the opportunity to jam with a guitarist/singer doing some classic rock tunes and recently some Black Sabbath songs.

I'm learning drums far faster than I expected, and I've learned to read drum sheet music (which I was truly afraid I could not learn as it looked like jibberish to me). I understand drum music enough that when we select songs to jam with, after I deconstruct the drum tracks (to a certain degree), I write out the music so I can repeat playing it each practice session and then at the jams.

Eventually though my son will want to jam on drums with us, which will leave me without drums to play. I had the idea to learn rythym guitar and picked up an old guitar we had stored away, and along with some DVDs a friend bought me I set to learning it.

I can't get into the guitar playing. I respect the instrument and people that can make it sing (like my jamming partner) but my heart keeps getting drawn to the Bass. I like the fat strings and ample space between each string, and I like the deep sound and how you can lay out a solid groove with the drums.

I never much paid attention to the the bass playing in rock songs, but lately I've been really listening to the bass lines in Led Zepplin, Sabbath, RUSH, the Who, Cream, etc. and I'm amazed at how cool the bass sound is. I've also listened to some Funk (James Brown, Sly Stone, Parliament) and Jazz to get a different flavour for it.

My plan is to buy a Bass guitar soon (looking at the SX models). My goal is to play along with the classic rock songs and the Sabbath stuff we're learning now, and eventually some Funk.

Due to timing at this point I'd prefer to learn some quick basics for Rock Bass but I also want to learn music theory along with that because I want to understand what I'm doing and why.

I have no cash for a teacher at this point, but next winter I may have enough for some lessons. Where should I start? I find I'm more of a visual learner and DVDs with books work better for me than just books with a CD. Thanks.

You should start by getting a McJob. And get the best bass you can afford and the best instruction. I mean books and DVDs are all fine and dandy, but you will learn bad habits on your own. It's best to just pay a decent instructor to teach you how to play properly.

[the_hook]

Originally Posted by Martin Bormann

You should start by getting a McJob. And get the best bass you can afford and the best instruction. I mean books and DVDs are all fine and dandy, but you will learn bad habits on your own. It's best to just pay a decent instructor to teach you how to play properly.

I have a job, and a family, and lots of other responsibilities (financial and otherwise). I got my bass last week (an SX model). I was fortunate enough to connect with a guy from a local guitar/bass forum and he helped me setup the bass and install new strings. He's super busy but was kind enough to give me some pointers on technique, but mostly I'll be on my own for learning. My aim is to see how far I can get on my own, and if there's some money in the fall, then take lessons.

I picked up a book to teach me the rudiments of music theory called Music Theory Made Easy by David Harp. It's really helped me 'get' a lot of the stuff I read here much better. What I did this week was create an excel sheet with every chromatic scale along with the Roman numeral naming.

I also did the Minor and Blues scales. Next I'll be learning chord construction. I figure if I can get that then when I can't find books with bass music I can at least get guitar ones with chords and figure out which notes to play. Eventually I want to be comfortable enough to take my bass over to my jamming buddy's place and actually jam with him on guitar (and he can play drums a bit too).

That's my action plan at this point.

[Stumbo]

Books+CD's here:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?...tar+cd&x=0&y=0

You may want to check out used book stores.

Free online bass lessons: http://www.studybass.com/

[Martin Bormann]

Originally Posted by the_hook

I have a job, and a family, and lots of other responsibilities (financial and otherwise). I got my bass last week (an SX model). I was fortunate enough to connect with a guy from a local guitar/bass forum and he helped me setup the bass and install new strings. He's super busy but was kind enough to give me some pointers on technique, but mostly I'll be on my own for learning. My aim is to see how far I can get on my own, and if there's some money in the fall, then take lessons.

I picked up a book to teach me the rudiments of music theory called Music Theory Made Easy by David Harp. It's really helped me 'get' a lot of the stuff I read here much better. What I did this week was create an excel sheet with every chromatic scale along with the Roman numeral naming.

I also did the Minor and Blues scales. Next I'll be learning chord construction. I figure if I can get that then when I can't find books with bass music I can at least get guitar ones with chords and figure out which notes to play. Eventually I want to be comfortable enough to take my bass over to my jamming buddy's place and actually jam with him on guitar (and he can play drums a bit too).

That's my action plan at this point.

Here is the thing though, when you do something on your own, you don't know what you're doing really hoping to learn on the way. The problem is you learn things that are hurting your ability to play. The more you do those "mistakes" the more you commit them to habit and they become "how you play." It is very difficult if not impossible to remove bad habits and that's if you have a very strong work ethic. Take it as a word of caution.

Or, you could just pray to God that he'll give you some talent. Because you really don't want solid advice.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Martin Bormann

Here is the thing though, when you do something on your own, you don't know what you're doing really hoping to learn on the way. The problem is you learn things that are hurting your ability to play. The more you do those "mistakes" the more you commit them to habit and they become "how you play." It is very difficult if not impossible to remove bad habits and that's if you have a very strong work ethic. Take it as a word of caution.

Or, you could just pray to God that he'll give you some talent. Because you really don't want solid advice.

Spoken like a guy without kids. People with families that aren't rich don't usually have $40 an hour to spend on lessons once a week. I think lessons are extremely important, but not at the expense of your family. So lighten up a little.

[the_hook]

I ordered the first Hal Leonard Bass Method beginner book (and DVD) and it should arrive soon. I understand about bad habits as I've watched my son's drum teacher correct him a number of times on how he holds his sticks, posture, etc.

This is what I've been able to do since I got the my SX: I've managed to practice/play every day (or evening) even if it's unplugged for 15 mins. The fingers of my left hand were so numb some nights I could barely feel the strings. But each night it got easier and I could move from note to note quicker and smoother.

The bass player that helped me setup my SX gave me 2 things to do; He gave me an exercise where I have to walk string by string but have to hold my four fingers on four separate frets. I could not do the top 3 frets near the neck the first few nights, but now I can do them all, and move along at a decent pace up and down the neck. I also wrote out scales and do all the major scales (minor is next).

He also gave me a song sheet with only chord names and a soundfile (piano/bass) playing the song at a nice pace.

I listened to it a few times and at first only played the root note of each chord, trying to make the transitions to the next one smooth. I then started adding more notes in between, whatever sounded right and seemed to work with the song.

Each new part I added I wrote out in pencil, initially writing only the note names (with finger position), then I found the notes on the staff (from the studybass website) and wrote those out as I want to be comfortable with sheet music for bass.

I can now play all the pieces I've written to the whole song and I've added some more flavour with the right hand as well. I'll try to hook up with him again as I'm sure he'll find things to correct, but at least I have stuff to show him and I can build on.

I found a music note writing software called Finale Notepad. I wrote out all my notes (12 bar first) in 4/4 time. It really taught me about what notes (1/4, 1/8, 1/16) you can use and how many per bar, as you can't add more notes once you've filled up the bar time. Another cool feature is it has a midi player that you can launch and it will play over each note. So what I did was play the song and launch the midi player. Very cool to hear my bass lines play with the song. I also found the bpm to match with the song, which is another good feature for learning song speed.

[Stumbo]

Play a lot of blues.
Get some backing tracks that you and your son can play along with.
Check out the "stickies" in the General Instruction Forum
Do it because you love the music. No matter what you think your progress is, keep on keepin' on.

[the_hook]

I was thinking of doing something specific with the bass, partly to accelerate learning and partly for a goal.

The guy I jam with (me drums, him guitar) and I have cut 3 cd's of recordings of our sessions. We start off with 1 or 2 classic rock cover songs, and then we'll do free form jamming from 1 to several songs.

I asked him if he has the ability to record the bass separately and lay that track with the guitar, drum and vocals we've already done. He said 'no problem'. So that's my goal for the next few weeks.

I already figured out what seems to sound right for both Paranoid and Iron Man. So once I get them smoothed out I'll plug in and record it, then have him layer it with the songs we did today. Should be interesting.