Just Jamming

[santucci218]

Sure to know all theory would be an amazing skill, but thats not what i need. What i need is the ability to listen to somebody else play a riff and play a bass line that can fit right in. What can i do to work on that? yes i memorized the neck, i know quite a few scales. Like, my phrasing, my voicing...the choice of notes in those scales. How do you discover these things on your own? just play with the people a lot and eventually you get it or what?

[santucci218]

ooh and also, how do you progress the music. Example, i made up a riff the other day and we were all playing along...keyboardist/guitarist doing his thing, drummer doing his own stuff...how can i progress it without stopping the song, or without fearing messing up what they are currently doing.

[KayCee]

Originally Posted by santucci218

Sure to know all theory would be an amazing skill, but thats not what i need. What i need is the ability to listen to somebody else play a riff and play a bass line that can fit right in. What can i do to work on that? yes i memorized the neck, i know quite a few scales. Like, my phrasing, my voicing...the choice of notes in those scales. How do you discover these things on your own? just play with the people a lot and eventually you get it or what?

It's interesting to me that the first thing you start with that you don't need to understand music theory.

In order to "fit right in" with a bass line, you need to understand the chord structure and scale choices that relate to the riff the other guy is playing. Then, draw from your experience as a music listener, and from bass parts that you have learned in the style of music you're playing. Put these together, use your creative skills, and inject your tone, technique, and soul into the piece of music.

Originally Posted by santucci218

ooh and also, how do you progress the music. Example, i made up a riff the other day and we were all playing along...keyboardist/guitarist doing his thing, drummer doing his own stuff...how can i progress it without stopping the song, or without fearing messing up what they are currently doing.

Could you clarify what you mean by "progress the music". Do you mean adding a chord change, a new section, or adding compexity to the part that's already being played?

[santucci218]

thank you for the help. Also, when i said progress the music i mean move on into a different riff and stuff. ya know? there is no song on earth that is one riff over and over and over...they all have some change.

[wmcjhi]

Well you're going to need to know some theory to watch and see what key your guitarist is in, or to be able to tell him what key you want to be in, or have the ear for the vocals...I'm trying to learn it all now and it isn't easy, but I definitely feel it's necessary if you have any intentions of getting notedly better and not just sitting around fiddling.

[KayCee]

Originally Posted by santucci218

thank you for the help. Also, when i said progress the music i mean move on into a different riff and stuff. ya know? there is no song on earth that is one riff over and over and over...they all have some change.

Well, if it's in a jam setting, I'll try to catch someone's eye, and I'll usually give a numeric change - "Four!" or if you've got a new riff to present, when you come to a logical 8 or 16 bar phrase ending, say " I GOT IT!" so that everyone "except drummer" drops out for you to lay down the new section bass line. If you're hearing specific chord changes in your head, call them out to your chordal instrument players while you play the line (a little multi-tasking here!).

[jaebee]

theory is what you want to know

you will progress the music by moving through a chord progression, which sometimes for bass (in my opinion) can be though of as the key center progression

anyways, you need to know what intervals / modes you want to progress by, and how to get through them, and music theory is what tells you that.

to be good at jamming you also have to be good at theory, whether you need to think about the theory or not

[santucci218]

thanks for all the tips dude. btw, i know a good amount of theory, but hardly anything on chords. maybe there is my problem?

[jaebee]

you dont know a good amount of theory without chord theory, chords are what tie together scales and progressions, and show you what to play out of your scales/ what scales to use when

learn chord theory and learn what chords your fellow jammers are playing and its a done deal

[santucci218]

i shall take that point to my teacher today.

[Depth_Charge]

I'd have asked my the teacher the original question if I had one...

Originally Posted by KayCee

In order to "fit right in" with a bass line, you need to understand the chord structure and scale choices that relate to the riff the other guy is playing. Then, draw from your experience as a music listener, and from bass parts that you have learned in the style of music you're playing. Put these together, use your creative skills, and inject your tone, technique, and soul into the piece of music.

Sorry to hijack this thread but do I want to follow that same process when the bass "leads" the jam as such as well? I got asked to "lead a jam" on a song my band covers, and to do "some fancy stuff" as well. I'm not even sure what "lead a jam" means as such? Define the tempo? progression? scale? I dunno

And not only do I have minimal to no theory to back me up, it's a genre I'm not familiar with either...I just haven't listened to enough of it to know anything about it.

To say I feel anxious showing them what I'm caming up with is understating things. When these guys free jam they sound like everyone knows where it's going and everything is prearranged, except me. It's embarrassing to always be the one hitting the avoid notes ...

So most of my "free jamming" is spent staring at the right hand of a guitarist and sticking to the root while my fingers/brain either just shoot notes out at random around the root, or play from known licks from other songs, most of which don't work in the jam of course

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Depth_Charge

To say I feel anxious showing them what I'm caming up with is understating things. When these guys free jam they sound like everyone knows where it's going and everything is prearranged, except me. It's embarrassing to always be the one hitting the avoid notes ...

Jamming is about learning to listen, pickup the current concept, expand on it, then add to it. Somes you have a good new idea you start catch the others attention and throw it out. That could be introducing a chord change, changing the rhythm, changing the riff or adding one. Sometimes you will feel the current groove could setup going into a song. A Jam is a living thing growing and developing.

Try out what Phish and Kai Eckardt to in some jams. In general they pick an order for the musicians. Then the first one gets the jam going. Once they all come up with ideas and work that idea, they look at each other or Kai has them do a musical que. Then the next guying in the que throw out a variation, or added to the current motif and they start locking in. They continue with that passing the baton musician to musician.

The used to be a Jazz club near me that most nights the music was a jam. A typical night a trio would start the night and go into a jam. Then musicians would join the jam, others would step off the bandstand. Some nights the jam would go non-stop till closing time. Musicians come and go, ideas morph, and great time for musicians and audience.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Jamming is about learning to listen, pickup the current concept, expand on it, then add to it. Somes you have a good new idea you start catch the others attention and throw it out. That could be introducing a chord change, changing the rhythm, changing the riff or adding one. Sometimes you will feel the current groove could setup going into a song. A Jam is a living thing growing and developing.

Try out what Phish and Kai Eckardt to in some jams. In general they pick an order for the musicians. Then the first one gets the jam going. Once they all come up with ideas and work that idea, they look at each other or Kai has them do a musical que. Then the next guying in the que throw out a variation, or added to the current motif and they start locking in. They continue with that passing the baton musician to musician.

The used to be a Jazz club near me that most nights the music was a jam. A typical night a trio would start the night and go into a jam. Then musicians would join the jam, others would step off the bandstand. Some nights the jam would go non-stop till closing time. Musicians come and go, ideas morph, and great time for musicians and audience.

Thanks, I didn't know a lot of that. I'll check those resources out, I haven't seen or heard much free jamming in my time at all. I'm not even sure if the mess around sessions I saw Metallica do on their show DVD's were free jams or just arranged extensions to the show...

[uturnbass]

I know some music theory, but to me.. I learned by ear what sounds good in certain situations and what doesn't..
recently I have been studying theory to understand why my ear picks things up like this, so it's helpful and good to know..

but..
the first time I jammed, I started off by asking the pianist what key it's in. And he'd tell me and tell me the first chord, and I would play very subtle, and listen to what they are playing, and when I feel I have the chord progessions down I begin to play louder, and then I begin to start adding licks or creating a groove or riff of some sort.

Now what you're saying is how do I hear a guitar riff and come right in being able to lock in with it, right?
This is the hard part... the first thing you gotta hear is the root of the chord that the riff is being played on. Cause most riffs start on that root... and then you have to be able to know what notes would fit with that, and begin to play around...

Something I do ALOT and it's quite amusing to my friends and brother, is they sit there and play guitar heroes for hours.
So I walk in there with my bass, and just play along whether I've heard the song before or not. I listen hard to the riffs and play around a little and have the riff completley figured out pretty fast.
That's what I do to practice that.

[uturnbass]

Now for "leading the jam" I've had this done to me before, basically just start off with a chord progession you know and begin to grow with that progession and add creativity to it and then the rest will pick up on it and join you.
Thats how it went with me.

[Rumblestiltzkin]

Originally Posted by santucci218

Sure to know all theory would be an amazing skill, but thats not what i need. What i need is the ability to listen to somebody else play a riff and play a bass line that can fit right in. What can i do to work on that? yes i memorized the neck, i know quite a few scales. Like, my phrasing, my voicing...the choice of notes in those scales. How do you discover these things on your own? just play with the people a lot and eventually you get it or what?

Sounds like you would be best suited working on ear/fretboard recognizition. IE: Playing tunes by ear. First, to "fit right in," you could copy the riff someone else is playing note for note. This requires instant ear/hand coordination. Yes, to basically answer your question, the answer is to play with others; eventually you will develop these skills. However, you can hasten the process by playing tunes off youtube or CDs and copping the basslines/guitar riffs/ect.

Although, I will have to say that learning BASIC theory is not very hard, really man. Learn scale degress, intervals, and chord construction. That should help you out a ton in jamming.