Keeping track where you are?

[WyrmDL]

Hello TB

I must apologize upfront. I am not a bass player primarily. I am a drummer

I'm not formally trained, so my theory, reading, etc, are not that great.

One of my biggest problems when I'm playing is I don't know exactly where I am, measure wise. I play by ear and improv, and the chart, while I can read it, does not come second nature. If theres a short break on measure 71, I most likely will not be prepared.

What tips do you have for me to know where I am in the chart? Do I count out every measure, or are there tricks to knowing?

[mambo4]

One thing I have done is re-write my charts so that the measures break down into 4 or 8 to a staff line. assuming the song is a standard from, this helps me know that each new line is also the beginning or half way point of a phrase or song section. I also frequently jot notes down where choruses and verses start etc.

But these are crutches. the real solution is practice, repetition and really knowing the song.

[fdeck]

It's easy to get lost in charts that are nothing but rows of chord symbols. It helps me a lot to have the melody, and the words, along with the chords. Belt and suspenders, as they say.

[wes stephenson]

yea what mambo4 said. learn to what 4, 8, and 16 bar phrases feel like when they go by. it will help alot

[Saxn]

+1 to Wes and Mambo. It's waaaay easier to count "4 choruses" than 32 bars! After getting an idea of what it feels like you'll not even have to think about it.

[MalcolmAmos]

I sing the words (lyrics) under my breath, i.e. I sing along with the vocalist -- singing along (humming, whatever) keeps me at the right spot on the chord cart. If I get lost I listen to the vocalist and hunt for the words being sung. The lyrics keep me at the right place.

Belt and suspenders - never heard that before, makes since.

[WyrmDL]

Looks like a lot of practice is in order for me.

I don't really get a chance to know the songs beforehand, so I have to try to sight read them. Thanks for the advice!

[Already In Use]

Another vote for lead sheets w/lyrics..after a bunch of practice I also associate the lyrics with changes so I can "get ready",,,per say.

I've had play songs I never heard before also. The lead sheets w/lyrics really were the key for me.

[Blackbird]

I took some percussion lessons recently and my teacher (big band drummer /orchestra percussion veteran) advised me to get a copy of the first trumpet part of the arrangement. Of course, you need to have some knowledge of music notation and chart reading skills for that to help.

And yes, you need to be counting constantly in the back of your head. It's part of what musicianship is all about.

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by Blackbird

And yes, you need to be counting constantly in the back of your head. It's part of what musicianship is all about.

My teacher has said the exact opposite, that musicianship is being able to keep time without constantly counting in the back of your head.

[lowfreqgeek]

Originally Posted by Blackbird

I took some percussion lessons recently and my teacher (big band drummer /orchestra percussion veteran) advised me to get a copy of the first trumpet part of the arrangement. Of course, you need to have some knowledge of music notation and chart reading skills for that to help.

And yes, you need to be counting constantly in the back of your head. It's part of what musicianship is all about.

Originally Posted by mongo2

My teacher has said the exact opposite, that musicianship is being able to keep time without constantly counting in the back of your head.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think Blackbird and your teacher are saying the same thing: it's about *feeling* where you are in the form without consciously counting it out. You have to be able to feel 4 bars, 8 bars, 16 bars, 32 bars, etc. If the form has something odd, then you may have to count till you can feel it, but the majority of music has an even number of bars throughout each section and as a whole.

That's what "in the back of your head" means, IMO.

[Blueszilla]

Originally Posted by lowfreqgeek

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think Blackbird and your teacher are saying the same thing: it's about *feeling* where you are in the form without consciously counting it out. You have to be able to feel 4 bars, 8 bars, 16 bars, 32 bars, etc. If the form has something odd, then you may have to count till you can feel it, but the majority of music has an even number of bars throughout each section and as a whole.

That's what "in the back of your head" means, IMO.

+1.

I hate counting, it's easier to 'feel' where the piece goes, at least for me. Most tunes have a larger 'structure' that's more apparent from a listening context than what is written on the chart, and if you listen closely, the dynamics will tell you 'where you are'. Lots of times you can break a tune down (when learning something by ear) by A and B (and even C) parts, where the parts are more similar than different, only differing on how they end, like the 1 and 2 endings on a jazz chart, where the 2 segues into a bridge or chorus. I learned a ton of tunes that way from folks who could teach it. Of course using the score works the same, but as others have said, that is a means to an end. Eventually learning it 'in the back of your head' is the goal.

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by lowfreqgeek

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think Blackbird and your teacher are saying the same thing: it's about *feeling* where you are in the form without consciously counting it out. You have to be able to feel 4 bars, 8 bars, 16 bars, 32 bars, etc. If the form has something odd, then you may have to count till you can feel it, but the majority of music has an even number of bars throughout each section and as a whole.

That's what "in the back of your head" means, IMO.

If "counting in the back of your head" was intended to mean not actually counting but using "feel" instead then I can see that.