Key changes/Chromatic Scale

[i_see_herbert]

So lately I am a little confused on key changes in certain songs I have been playing and where to walk around. I have always done fine playing around the major scale and using all of the proper modes, i.e. from C major to D dorian, etc. I guess the problem I have been running into lately is when songs are switching keys a lot and pretty much using a chromatic scale, I guess.

The problem is, my keyboardist is not musically trained (neither am I, self taught) and he does not know how to tell me what key to play in. I always have to figure it out, which is fine by me, I just want to make sure we are playing in the same spectrum.

For instance, we have one song that goes like this ---AbMaj7/Bb - A13 - GbMaj7/Ab - G13(no 3rd) - EMaj7/Gb - EbMaj7/F - DMaj7/E - DbMaj7/Eb - D13 - DbMaj7/Eb - DMaj7/E.

Am I correct to simply just play the major scale around each root note and continue doing the same for each change?

This is just one example. For the most part, I stay on roots and play off a 1/5/4 for two of the changes, and that is what the song calls for. This is just an example that I can use for other songs because we have a lot of songs that go through changes like this.

I have been sticking to the, "whatever sounds correct mode", but would like to just know for sure what I need to be doing.

I have researched a lot of stuff but it's hard to find the right stuff on google/forums when any keyword of chromatic scale and key changes brings up a lot of stuff that is not what I need.

Sorry if a topic like this was posted elsewhere on the forum, but I could not find one so I thought I would post away. Any feedback would be great and any extra talk about unorthodox key changes and such would be awesome to talk/learn about.

Here is a link to us playing the song if it helps at all with what I am talking about. The intro chords that I had listed are at the beginning for two rounds and then again during the middle of the songs before the horn solos.

Colby Dobbs Band The Great Unknown - 01.07.12 @ Visulite Theater - YouTube

Thanks a bunch!

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by i_see_herbert

For instance, we have one song that goes like this ---AbMaj7/Bb - A13 - GbMaj7/Ab - G13(no 3rd) - EMaj7/Gb - EbMaj7/F - DMaj7/E - DbMaj7/Eb - D13 - DbMaj7/Eb - DMaj7/E.

Am I correct to simply just play the major scale around each root note and continue doing the same for each change?

I wouldn't "just play the major scale around each root note".

Generally, these are non-functioning Dominant-like chords descending in half-steps. I'd look at them all as V13 chords - yes some are sus4 chords.

The first chord, AbMaj7/Bb, can be thought of as Bbsus13 (Bb, Eb, F, Ab, C, G). This is followed by A13, and so forth.

You can't really use a "major scale around each root note". Some here will call the best scale to use, the Mixolydian. (I'm done with mode-arguments)

So, for the first chord, use this scale: Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb. Second chord use: A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A. And so forth.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by i_see_herbert

For instance, we have one song that goes like this ---AbMaj7/Bb - A13 - GbMaj7/Ab - G13(no 3rd) - EMaj7/Gb - EbMaj7/F - DMaj7/E - DbMaj7/Eb - D13 - DbMaj7/Eb - DMaj7/E.

Am I correct to simply just play the major scale around each root note and continue doing the same for each change?

You can if you want to, I would not. Any time the progression is full of "fancy" chords I follow the chords and dumb down to roots or roots and fives and let the other instruments get the fancy part. If you get involved with melodic scales no one is laying down the beat for the bottom end. Chord tones do this very well. I was also taught to play the slash. On Abmaj7/Bb I'd play the Bb and leave the Abmaj7 to the other instruments. As most of this progression are slash chords if you play the slash and follow the chords your big problem is over.

I did not spend a lot of time trying to decide what Key that song is using, (good question BTW) but, if both of you follow the chords it really does not matter. So - that problem is taken care of also.

I presume the keyboardist is playing from sheet music which should list the key signature. Ask and then assuming your I IV V works most of the time, however, I doubt it working on this progression.

Recapping - Play the slash and follow the chords. Roots and fives should do it.

[DBCrocky]

I have been sticking to the, "whatever sounds correct mode", but would like to just know for sure what I need to be doing.

IMO, theory will not tell you what is right or wrong, because there is no right or wrong. Theory is to help you get to ideas that work - much faster than by trial and error. Theory will expose you to new things that work in new ways so that you can add them to your arsenal.

But theory does not tell you what is right or wrong over a particular chord progression.

Think of it this way - if I want to convey happiness, I would pick a completely different scale than if I want to convey scary. The most discordant notes are appropriate if you want to convey discordant emotion. Scales are tools, you try to find the right tool for a particular job. This is art, not a math problem.

So try different scales and ideas, and stick to "whatever sounds correct mode" to make your final decision.

[Russell L]

A confusing progression, to me. Typically when I see a triad with the bass a M2 up it's a modified V-chord, much the same as a sus4 with a 9 added. The Abmaj7/Bb adds a 6th to that, if I'm considering it to be a modified V-chord, and it makes me think you are coming from the key of Eb, but instead it goes to the A13. So,then I'm thinking you're modulating into the key of D. But no, you go to Gbmaj7/Ab. Hm. Dang if I know what to say there.

[Febs]

Listening to the link the OP posted, I wonder if the keyboard player's chord spellings might be a bit confusing. Based on my quick listen, it sounds more like he's using "add9" chords (or the Steely Dan "Mu Major" variation). It may be that while he's calling them AbMaj7/Bb, he really just means "AbMaj7 with an added Bb."

[i_see_herbert]

Thanks for the responses. I guess the chords could also be written out this way...

Bb 13sus4 - A13 - Ab 13sus4 - G 13 (no 3rd) - Gb 13sus4 - F 13 sus4 -
E 13sus4 - Eb 13sus4 - D13 - Eb 13sus4 - E 13sus4.

But yeah, the problem has just been that my keyboardist does not know key signatures. There is no sheet music, it is a song he wrote, and neither of us read music. I need to learn.

But yeah, I have been playing around on the roots and fifths, and just letting the horns do all the work, which works fine, but just using this as an example of changing keys in a song.

But I appreciate the responses, very much.

[Russell L]

I don't see a key change since there is no I-chord indicated. I mean, a 13sus4 isn't where you'd normally stop. But, I guess what you're asking is what to play for each scale. I guess Myxolydian for each chord. But, hey don't busy it up too much, considering what all is going on there already.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by i_see_herbert

Thanks for the responses. I guess the chords could also be written out this way...

Bb 13sus4 - A13 - Ab 13sus4 - G 13 (no 3rd) - Gb 13sus4 - F 13 sus4 -
E 13sus4 - Eb 13sus4 - D13 - Eb 13sus4 - E 13sus4.

But yeah, the problem has just been that my keyboardist does not know key signatures. There is no sheet music, it is a song he wrote, and neither of us read music. I need to learn.

But yeah, I have been playing around on the roots and fifths, and just letting the horns do all the work, which works fine, but just using this as an example of changing keys in a song.

But I appreciate the responses, very much.

Another one of those "it sounds good to me, and I have no idea what key it's in" song.

Most songs pick a key and stay with it. Sure some may use another key for the chorus, or something like that, but most of the times you get one key. Sure the song may go out of key for awhile, but, it'll get back in key before it ends.

You keyboardist is in over his head --- Good Luck. Looks like you are doing the best you can under these circumstances. Grab hold and you two work it out. As long as it sounds good and you both are following the same chords that is all that matters.

A thought unloosened. Do you have a vocalist? If so how is that going?

Have fun.

[i_see_herbert]

He actually is the vocalist. He does fine with it, though. I actually really enjoy playing the song and pretty much stay in the pocket -- really not doing much but moving around on 1/5/4 and back to the root on the major scale. But I guess, technically what I am playing is just the same thing if I were in mixolydian. I was more so just using this song as an example to get some input on what others do with key changes and pretty much just using the chromatic scale.

It's a fun challenge to just play what sounds right, but you obviously always need a base. I know there isn't always a wrong or right, but the key is to stay away from as much tension as possible when switching keys, unless that is what you are going for.

Really appreciate the responses. This was my first post but I am excited to have more and am absolutely going to be using this iPhone app for the site I just downloaded!