Key for dummies, please!

[TallicaDeth]

ok, i see people saying, "i just stay in key" and things like that. i have no idea what that means. can some one give me a really basic tutorial on keys and what key is in a language i would be able to understand. it will help lots.

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

Originally Posted by TallicaDeth

ok, i see people saying, "i just stay in key" and things like that. i have no idea what that means. can some one give me a really basic tutorial on keys and what key is in a language i would be able to understand. it will help lots.

http://www.guitargrimoire.com/gt03.htm


buy that and it will show you all you need to know =)

[fourstringburn]

Tuff one huh? Basically the key of a song refers to it's tonal center and scales and chords that belong to that key. You need to know all the notes on the fretboard first (at least the first octave for now) this will increase your music vocabulary. there are plenty of resources on line which you can look up to help you.

Referring now to metal music, If your song is in the key of A minor, that means the scale notes are as easy as A B C D E F G. and a song in A minor will have chord changes that will include some or all the notes in the scale usually in the form of a root/fith guitar power chord. Of course a song can have chord changes outside the scale, this adds dissonance and it's up to you to find a interesting note choice in these situations.

As for licks and fill ins, Playing notes within the A minor scale or A Pentatonic scale fits in real nice. As you play, practice, and learn more, You will gain more insight about what to play.

If you know the notes on your bass, try this. Practice the A minor scale . Once you learn the A minor (natural) scale, you basically just learned the major scale because every major scale has it's relative minor. just start the minor scale 3 notes up within the A minor scale and you will be starting on a C, This will be the C major scale, C D E F G A B. See how that works? Play them both and you will see the same notes but a completely different sound.

The major scale is referred to as a happy sound, typically found in pop and country music etc. While the minor key is considered a sad sound and use extensively in metal music. I'm pointing this out to show you how all music is related, it is just sequences of 12 notes.

Of course there is alot more to learn about the other notes and keys. I just wanted to give you one easy example to start with.

I always recommend lessons with an accredited teacher at least in the primary levels. This will speed up the learning process and will give you hands on instruction and explanations why things are. We learned to read in elementary school with teachers, the same thing applies to music. think about it!

[Rudreax]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sore_Fingerz

http://www.guitargrimoire.com/gt03.htm


buy that and it will show you all you need to know =)

Please do NOT buy this book. It's essentially just a huge list of scales and modes, and if you don't know what the key of a song means you're not going to need it (the book isn't really helpful anyway though).

[fearceol]

"Study Bass" is a great site IMO. Browse through it and you will see. Here is a link from it, dealing with scales.

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-scales/

[FunkMetalBass]

Key:
a collection of notes and chords

Notes in the key of C:
C, D, E, F, G, A, B

Chords in the key of C:
C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, B diminished

The pattern to remembering major/minor/diminished in any key (roman numerals):
I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii°
[capital = major, lowercase = minor, ° = diminished]

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by TallicaDeth

ok, i see people saying, "i just stay in key" and things like that. i have no idea what that means. can some one give me a really basic tutorial on keys and what key is in a language i would be able to understand. it will help lots.

All good advice so far. Might help to understand what we mean when we use the word Key. Key is a range of sound, made of single notes (referred to as a scale) and the chords made from those scale notes. So when they say let's do "Kiss ole Sallie" in G, ready; 1 and 2 and 3 ....... The instruments playing single notes will use the notes from the scale of G and the instruments using chords will use chords from the key of G.

Now that is all well and good if you know the notes in the scale of G and the chords in the key of G. Several ways of doing that. You can do that with some formulas, such as whole step, half step, for the scale, i.e. run WWHWWWH on a chromatic scale and you will get the major scale of the note you started on. Take those notes and apply another formula used to make chords and you end up with the chords made from that scale.

Here are some charts that do all that for you. Suggest you print these off as they are hard to find on one sheet of paper.

Major Scale Chart..........First set of helps..................................Second set of helps
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps.............Let Google find you a chromatic scale then
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#..............run that WWHWWWH step formula starting
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and............on C and you will end up with the C Major
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps........scale C, D, E, F, G, A, B. Start on A and
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how.......you end up with the notes of the A scale
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.................................A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb

Natural Minor Scale Chart
A B C D E F G ................Notice how the 6th column of the
E F# G A B C D................Major scale becomes the 1st column
B C# D E F# G A..............in the minor scale and how the 7th
F# G# A B C# D E............column of the Major scale is now the
C# D# E F# G# A B..........2nd column in the minor scale. And
G# A# B C# D# E F#........yep, the 1st column in the Major scale
D# E# F# G# A# B C#......is now the 3rd column, etc. etc.
A# B# C# D# E# F# G#....Ask your self why? Hint, think relative minor.
D E F G A Bb C
G A Bb C D Eb F
C D Eb F G Ab Bb
F G Ab Bb C Db Eb
Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab
Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db
Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb

Some memory pegs to help you know WHAT scale:
See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos - Order of the scale that have sharps in them. C has no sharps, G has one, D has two, etc.
Fat Cats Go Down Alleys Eating Birds - are the order of the sharps, i.e. C has none, G has one the F# (Fat) then D has two, keeps the F# and adds a C# (cats), etc.
Farmer Brown Eats Apply Dumplings Greasily Cooked - order of the scales that have flats in them.

You have a piece of sheet music that shows the key signature of ### three sharps. What scale has three sharps, yep tick off your memory peg and you find that it is A major --- or F# minor, always that "or". Both have the same notes and both have the same chords, well which one is it? Good question -- save that for later just be glad you found A major. F# is A's relative minor another story best left for when you start playing in the minor keys.

Now here is a site that will have a chart of all the Major and natural minor chords.
http://www.ezfolk.com/uke/Tutorials/...ord-chart.html

Ask specific questions, someone will help.

Have fun.

[fourstringburn]

Interesting memory peg to learn the order of Keys from.

The cycle of fiths or some people use the fourths for the flat keys, is the way I learned them. Your is fine but I think learning them in the cycle series makes you think of each key as a name and what note name the fith is or fourth in each key which is sharpened or flattened is better. So intern you can easily learn each chord tones roots, thirds,fiths, sevenths, etc. by thinking the notes names that represents the root,third, fith, seventh, etc. derived from that scale in the key your playing in.

[MonetBass]

www.musictheory.net

Good instructional exercises on that site.

[JTE]

"Key" means the tonality, where the music wants to come home. Listen to someone play a G7 chord and then a C major. That resolution you hear is what "key" ultimatley means. Learn basic theory in an organized process to put this all together.

I abhor those mnemonic devices. Instead wasting your time leaning those things, put your energy into learning how and why. That way instaed of going through " F Bead Juicy Friut", know WHY A major has three sharps.

John

[Richard Lindsey]

Here's a definition of key from Dolmetsch Online:

"specific scales or series of notes defining a particular tonality, for example, certain keys may, on the basis of the sequence of successive intervals, be defined as major or minor and are then named after their tonic or key note"

Note that there are actually two components to key, not just one.

1. The specific scale or series of notes. These can be specified in terms of their distance from the tonic note (see #2)(e.g., a major scale can be thought of as consisting of a tonic, a major 2nd, a major 3rd, a perfect 4th, a perfect 5th, a major 6th, a major 7th, a perfect octave) or their distance from the notes before and after them in the sequence (e.g., a major scale can be constructed by the following sequence of whole- and half-step intervals, starting from the tonic: WWHWWWH)
1a. The use of specific notes and not others also means of course that certain CHORDS occur "naturally" within the key (i.e., are built solely from the notes in the key) and others don't, because they would require notes that the key doesn't supply as is. For example, Bm7 doesn't occur "naturally" in C major, because it needs an F#, which C major doesn't include. (This doesn't mean that notes outside the key can never be used--they are, all the time--but let that slide for now.)

2. The tonic or key note, that is, the "home base" of the harmony, the place on which things seem to want to rest or to which they want to resolve. In C major, this would have to be C, by definition; in A major, A; and so on. If C is not functioning as your tonic or key note, you're not really in C but in something else

You need BOTH of these to establish a key or tonality. (This is true of establishing modality with modes as well, since these are also "keyed" in a real sense, but let that go for now too.) The set of notes A B C D E F G can define C major if they are used in such a way that C is clearly the resting place, but the set can also define A (natural) minor if the notes are used in such a way that A minor is clearly the resting place.

[251]

http://wheatsbassbook.org/ - is a good place to start reading.

[TallicaDeth]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

All good advice so far. Might help to understand what we mean when we use the word Key. Key is a range of sound, made of single notes (referred to as a scale) and the chords made from those scale notes. So when they say let's do "Kiss ole Sallie" in G, ready; 1 and 2 and 3 ....... The instruments playing single notes will use the notes from the scale of G and the instruments using chords will use chords from the key of G.

Now that is all well and good if you know the notes in the scale of G and the chords in the key of G. Several ways of doing that. You can do that with some formulas, such as whole step, half step, for the scale, i.e. run WWHWWWH on a chromatic scale and you will get the major scale of the note you started on. Take those notes and apply another formula used to make chords and you end up with the chords made from that scale.

Here are some charts that do all that for you. Suggest you print these off as they are hard to find on one sheet of paper.

Major Scale Chart..........First set of helps..................................Second set of helps
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps.............Let Google find you a chromatic scale then
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#..............run that WWHWWWH step formula starting
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and............on C and you will end up with the C Major
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps........scale C, D, E, F, G, A, B. Start on A and
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how.......you end up with the notes of the A scale
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.................................A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb

Natural Minor Scale Chart
A B C D E F G ................Notice how the 6th column of the
E F# G A B C D................Major scale becomes the 1st column
B C# D E F# G A..............in the minor scale and how the 7th
F# G# A B C# D E............column of the Major scale is now the
C# D# E F# G# A B..........2nd column in the minor scale. And
G# A# B C# D# E F#........yep, the 1st column in the Major scale
D# E# F# G# A# B C#......is now the 3rd column, etc. etc.
A# B# C# D# E# F# G#....Ask your self why? Hint, think relative minor.
D E F G A Bb C
G A Bb C D Eb F
C D Eb F G Ab Bb
F G Ab Bb C Db Eb
Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab
Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db
Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb

Some memory pegs to help you know WHAT scale:
See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos - Order of the scale that have sharps in them. C has no sharps, G has one, D has two, etc.
Fat Cats Go Down Alleys Eating Birds - are the order of the sharps, i.e. C has none, G has one the F# (Fat) then D has two, keeps the F# and adds a C# (cats), etc.
Farmer Brown Eats Apply Dumplings Greasily Cooked - order of the scales that have flats in them.

You have a piece of sheet music that shows the key signature of ### three sharps. What scale has three sharps, yep tick off your memory peg and you find that it is A major --- or F# minor, always that "or". Both have the same notes and both have the same chords, well which one is it? Good question -- save that for later just be glad you found A major. F# is A's relative minor another story best left for when you start playing in the minor keys.

Now here is a site that will have a chart of all the Major and natural minor chords.
http://www.ezfolk.com/uke/Tutorials/...ord-chart.html

Ask specific questions, someone will help.

Have fun.

ok, so tell me what is wrong in this. Cmaj are Am relatives and Gmaj and Em are relatives? if i were keeping the key in, lets say, B, i would only play, B C# D E F# G A? does it all have to be on the same octave or even the same area of the fretboard? how would i tell someone is playing in B just by listening, if thats possible for a beginner? has anyone made a song in all 1 key? how do you use a key in a song or how have you, personally, used a key in a song you created?

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

Originally Posted by Rudreax

Please do NOT buy this book. It's essentially just a huge list of scales and modes, and if you don't know what the key of a song means you're not going to need it (the book isn't really helpful anyway though).

So a breakdown of scale patterns, complete listings of the fret positions which are in a certain key, and showing all these patterns and where they are applicable is not helpful? lol. Once you get scale formulas down, its not hard to grasp keys.

If you don't find it helpful, that's great, nobody is making you buy it. Give the guy a chance to read the book before you try to burn it like witchcraft

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by TallicaDeth

ok, so tell me what is wrong in this. Cmaj are Am relatives and Gmaj and Em are relatives?

OK every scale/key has three major chords, three minor chords and one diminished chord. Every scale has a relative minor scale. The notes in both are the same, however, a major key will be centered around the major chords and the relative minor key will be centered around the minor chords - same set of 7 chords the major key will use major chords as it's tonal center and the minor key will use minor chords as it's tonal center. For example: C scale's relative minor is the Am scale. Same 7 notes in both, same 7 chords in both, how do you tell which is which? You have to look/listen to the chords used, but, you say they are the same, yes they are the same 7 however, if you are using the key of C the chords will revolve around the 3 Major chords, i.e. C F & G chords. If the song is in Am the song will revolve around the 3 minor chords, i.e. Am Dm & Em chords. Just something you have to get your head around. Look at the ending chord in each verse, not one or two all verses, if they are the same that is your key. Why? Verses like to start at rest (I chord) move to tension (IV chord) reach climax (V7chord) and return to rest (I). If all the verses end on the I tonic chord bet the farm that is your key.

...if i were keeping the key in, lets say, B, i would only play, B C# D# E F# G# A#? does it all have to be on the same octave or even the same area of the fretboard?

Well, yes you would/should use only the notes of the B scale, however those notes can fall in several different octaves. The 6 string guitar is a 4 octave instrument, I think I am correct on this - the 4 string bass is a 3 octave instrument. Play in whatever octave the music has been written in -- yes how to read standard notation comes in handy and should be on your list of things to do. The three octaves are located in three specific places on the fretboard - take your pick. http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/basschart.htm Pick a G note, find another G, is it in the same octave there are several duplications keep looking till you find a G in another octave - then find one above the 12th fret there is your 3rd octave.

... how would i tell someone is playing in B just by listening, if that's possible for a beginner?

Easy way is to listen to the song and run the notes on your E string one fret at a time - when what you are doing and what is playing sound in sync repeat that note several times as the song plays over what you are doing - if it sounds good over this you have found the tonal center, thus the key. Just look down at the fretboard and see what note this happened on. Much easier to do on the keyboard than on your bass E string, but it can be done. To hear a song and out of the blue know it is in G or D or whatever takes a good ear. I have to do the above to decide what key.

... has anyone made a song in all 1 key? how do you use a key in a song or how have you, personally, used a key in a song you created?

Yes to all of this. Songs are usually in one key. Why, well people like to sing in a specific key. I like D, can I sing in other keys, sure, but I prefer D because I can hit all the high notes and also grab all the low notes if we stay in D. So most songs take that into account when they are written. Do some song have 2 keys? A few. You may find the chorus moving to another key. I write songs on the keyboard and use the key of C, why, all white notes - there are no sharps or flats in C. The black notes on the piano are the sharps and flats. Just playing white notes are easier. So how do you use a key to write a song. It's as simple as picking one. Decide which one and then just use the notes of that scale and the chords made from those notes. You should get used to having a key in mind before you start playing if you don't random out of scale notes will creep into your playing. You ultimate goal is to be able to play in every key. Not a big deal if you use root notes and visualize the major scale pattern. Place the root note correctly and the rest of the key's notes are waiting for you in their assigned spot. When that is second nature - then you can get fancy and play out, for now concentrate on playing in.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by TallicaDeth

ok, i see people saying, "i just stay in key" and things like that. :

Well - when they say things like that - they are just WRONG!!

As bass player, you cannot just pick random notes from a key and make it sound like a bass line!

You have to be outlining the chords or it will not sound like a bass line - but rather, random doodling...

Also - songs can change key - it is not good advice to say "just stay in key" - it is very bad advice, especially for beginners!

[TallicaDeth]

MalcolmAmos, you are the most helpful person ever, a life saver. Are you a bass teacher?

[MalcolmAmos]

No I've been playing bass less than a year, however, I made a living teaching adults.

Thanks for the kind words.