Key pertaining to trumpet

doog · #1 01-20-2009, 08:02 AM

I was under the impression the key applies to everyone but is there any reason trumpet is different?

We are corresponding with a trumpet player via our myspace page and he has, to my knowledge, all the keys to our recordings wrong..What I mean, is, that he sent us a list of our recordings and attached the key he thought it was in next to it. I just want to verify there isnt some magic rule for trumpet that lets them deviate outside the key before I correct him and look a-fool.

For example listen to "Energy Turtle" radio edit

Its in B. Would C#m major sound good if only the trumpet followed that over the B? I admit im NOT the best with theory..

UncleBalsamic · #2 01-20-2009, 08:05 AM

Most Trumpets are B♭ Trumpets and if they play a C, they are actually playing a concert B♭.

kevinmoore73 · #3 01-20-2009, 08:06 AM

Well, trumpet is a Bb instrument. When a trumpet player plays a C, the sound that comes out sounds like Bb. They'll have to transpose your music to play in in the correct key.

doog · #4 01-20-2009, 08:08 AM

So a B flat would then first position of the A string, when all of the riffs in that song begin on 2nd position A string. Straight B note. Would that work?

jimmy rocket · #5 01-20-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doog

I was under the impression the key applies to everyone but is there any reason trumpet is different?

Trumpets are a transposing instrument keyed in Bb relative to the concert pitch, so when they play a written C (in trumpet music) they're playing a concert Bb. That's a whole step difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doog

Its in B. Would C#m major sound good if only the trumpet followed that over the B? I admit im the best with theory..

what's a C#m major?

If you're playing a B they should be playing a C#. The minor and major stay the same.

kevinmoore73 · #6 01-20-2009, 08:12 AM

Bass is a C instrument. The Bb you play on a bass will be the same as a Bb played in concert key or any C instrument. The trumpet player will have to transpose everything up a whole step.

doog · #7 01-20-2009, 08:12 AM

ah never mind he's saying c sharp. so thatd make it a straight B. I understand now, I do appreciate your swift responses and shared knowledge

jimmy rocket · #8 01-20-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doog

So a B flat would then first position of the A string, when all of the riffs in that song begin on 2nd position A string. Straight B note. Would that work?

Umm, what?

If you are in B major, they're in C# major. If you're in B minor, they're in C# minor (not a particularly comfortable key on trumpet)

jimmy rocket · #9 01-20-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doog

ah never mind he's saying c sharp. so thatd make it a straight B. I understand now, I do appreciate your swift responses and shared knowledge

No problem. That's what makes TB so good!

doog · #10 01-20-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy rocket

Umm, what?

If you are in B major, they're in C# major. If you're in B minor, they're in C# minor (not a particularly comfortable key on trumpet)

Sorry my lingo is sometimes hard to understand and I just realized I said a few things wrong. I get the concept of trumpet relative to the rest of the band.

Though I must ask, why is c# minor difficult for that instrument? I ask because after re reading his email, he plans on playing in that for the song

jimmy rocket · #11 01-20-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doog

Though I must ask, why is c# minor difficult for that instrument? I ask because after re reading his email, he plans on playing in that for the song

Only because it's got 4 sharps in it. On a string instrument you can follow a pattern and run of a C# minor with no more trouble than a G scale, but on a trumpet it's a little trickier (speaking as a trumpet player) He sounds like he knows what he's doing though, so no worries.

doog · #12 01-20-2009, 08:46 AM

Glorious, I await his take on our music. Speaking as a player yourself, is there anything I can do to ease his transition into our band as a bassist?

Besides learning more theory. I understand adding another instrument, especially one that will open us up to more styles, puts more pressure on me as a bassist. Both in the fact that I'll need to be able to write thick coherent bass lines to pretty much nothing and let him follow me (my drummer dosnt like to play beats when I write, he'll give me the run around when i confront him about it...still havnt quite figured it out yet, but call me crazy I like a beat when I write) but also be able to lead the band in general. Im somewhat rambling now...

DocBop · #13 01-20-2009, 09:52 AM

Not all instruments are C instruments, trumpet is Bb and alto sax Eb are two examples and you have to transpose for them. Actually voice and bass are both transposed instrument but transposed an octave.

lowendlover · #14 01-20-2009, 10:03 AM

Fergie Fulton · #15 01-20-2009, 10:12 AM

Trumpets come in a host of keys, if you want to play in C ask him if he can buy or have access to a C trumpet. Transposing is not normaly a problem for a trumpet player.

jimmy rocket · #16 01-20-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Trumpets come in a host of keys, if you want to play in C ask him if he can buy or have access to a C trumpet. Transposing is not normaly a problem for a trumpet player.

While I wouldn't expect him to have a host of differently keyed trumpets (he may I have no idea) Fergie is right that transposition shouldn't be a problem for him (and indeed it sounds that it is not). Trumpets in different keys (C for example) have the convenience of not transposing, but they also have a different timbre and character. There's a reason Bb has been the most popular key for trumpets in many instances. They sound good, and they sit in the overall picture differently than a C trumpet would.

If he's transposing there's no problem. I transpose everything I play because the guitarists in my band tune down half a step and then move capos all up and down their fret boards. I just recognize this as something I have to do.

azureblue · #17 01-20-2009, 01:35 PM

First, C trumpets sound awful- thin. All you have to remember for transposing is this:

For Bb instruments- trumpet, tenor sax, clarinet- tell them the note that is two frets above the one you are playing. D=E

For Eb instruments, alto sax, tell them the note that is 3 frets down from the one you are playing. D=B

For soprano sax tell them the one that is 4 frets down since most sop. sax players play way sharp.. :-) Better yet, tell them to play flat...

jimmy rocket · #18 01-20-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azureblue

For soprano sax tell them the one that is 4 frets down since most sop. sax players play way sharp.. :-) Better yet, tell them to play flat...

better yet, ask them to stop playing altogether.

HaVIC5 · #19 01-20-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Trumpets come in a host of keys, if you want to play in C ask him if he can buy or have access to a C trumpet. Transposing is not normaly a problem for a trumpet player.

The first time you play with a C trumpet in an ensemble is not fun. They're really not a nice sound, not to mention the fact that nobody has them, and nobody likes to play them.

BassChuck · #20 01-21-2009, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

The first time you play with a C trumpet in an ensemble is not fun. They're really not a nice sound, not to mention the fact that nobody has them, and nobody likes to play them.

Trumpet players pick the key of the trumpet (Bb, C, D, Eb, or piccolo) for the sound and for the style of music. C trumpets are wonderful instruments, they cut through a musical texture very well and for the reason are suited for orchestral playing (most trumpet players in professional symphony orchestras will use a C trumpet over Bb unless there is a specific reason). Bb trumpets have a warmer, darker sound and are a bit easier to play if the goal is melodic playing and fitting into a musical texture.