key signatures: what do they tell you?

[lmichaels]

Hi everyone

I hope this will make some sense. Can more experienced players tell me what is their "mental process" when they meet a new piece of sheet music? (FYI I am talking about snippets at the level of a method book such as Hal Leonard's.)

My original, more down-to-the-point question was: how do I make practical use of the key signature indicated at the top of the piece? (I understand the direct implication of the key signature -- eg, an F sharp tells me all Fs in the piece are to be read as F sharps.) What I mean is: do you use the key signature to mentally narrow down the set of notes you are likely to play in the piece? Do you interpret (eg) an F sharp key signature as telling you "most of the notes in this piece will come from the G major/E minor scales, so let me position my left hand accordingly"?

Currently, as I approach a new snippet the notes on the staff appear to me as a mysterious sequence. Any help in overcoming this would be VERY welcome.

~l

As I understand it, any given key signature

[JTE]

I tells me to think of the main scale the song will be based on, in this case G major or E minor (unless there's a notation to the effect of "Not G Major but A Dorian"). It tells me that there will be a whole step between any E and F's unless an accidental appears.

And that's what's really important to me when reading- the intervals. I think less and less about "it's E G E A C E C D E E E" but rather "E up a minor 3rd, back to the first note, up a fourth, then a minor 3rd, etc." And knowing that it's in G (or E minor) tells me whether the E to F is a whole step or half-step, etc.

John

[brianrost]

It just means I have to remember that certain notes are sharped and flatted without being notated as accidentals...no more, no less.

It has nothing to do with fingerings because that is left up to you as the player anyway.

In your example, if I want to play a G major scale starting on the 3rd fret of the E string there are many fingerings that will work. Which fingering I use does not change which notes I play.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by lmichaels

Hi everyone

I hope this will make some sense. Can more experienced players tell me what is their "mental process" when they meet a new piece of sheet music? (FYI I am talking about snippets at the level of a method book such as Hal Leonard's.)

My original, more down-to-the-point question was: how do I make practical use of the key signature indicated at the top of the piece? (I understand the direct implication of the key signature -- eg, an F sharp tells me all Fs in the piece are to be read as F sharps.) What I mean is: do you use the key signature to mentally narrow down the set of notes you are likely to play in the piece? Do you interpret (eg) an F sharp key signature as telling you "most of the notes in this piece will come from the G major/E minor scales, so let me position my left hand accordingly"?

Currently, as I approach a new snippet the notes on the staff appear to me as a mysterious sequence. Any help in overcoming this would be VERY welcome.

~l

As I understand it, any given key signature

AFAIAC, its direct implication IS its practical use. That's pretty much it.

Fundamentally, a key signature is nothing but a notational convenience, invented to cut down on the number of accidentals you have to write. It doesn't truly establish the key, it only reflects it. What establishes the key is the notes and chords that actually make up the music. Technically, music in any key could be written in any key signature, or none at all, if you wanted to work that hard at writing out accidentals.

[Mushroo]

The "key signature" tells you what "key" a piece of music is in. Do you need an explanation of why that is important to know? If you are just playing the notes on the page, then maybe you don't need to understand the theory; however if there is any jazz/improv/embellishing your own bass lines then you absolutely need to know the key of the song. It is the "home base" around which the harmony dances, and to which it eventually resolves!

[dtsamples]

In order to properly answer your question, I must launch into a discussion of the modes and their use as it pertains to chord theory

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by dtsamples

In order to properly answer your question, I must launch into a discussion of the modes and their use as it pertains to chord theory

That didn't take long!

[Mushroo]

Key signatures have nothing to do with modes. If a song uses primarily the Mixolydian mode, for example a blues in G, then you use a key signature of one sharp and write the F natural accidental as needed. Or for example "So What" by Miles Davis uses primarily the D Dorian mode, you write it with a key signature of 1 flat (D Minor) and write the B natural accidental as needed.

There are a few exceptions to this rule, such as an ethnomusicological text dealing with non-western music, or informal jazz lead sheets such as the original Real Book (which uses the misleading key signature of no sharps or flats for "So What").

[dtsamples]

Originally Posted by Mushroo

Key signatures have nothing to do with modes.

Lol I was only kidding

[Papa Dangerous]

Key Sigs tell you the key. Whether it is referring to Major or Minor will 99.9% of the time be determined by the very last chord on the music. Do not rely on the very first chord, because it can be a pick up.

From knowing whether it is major or minor, tells me what finger (pointer or middle) I would typically start playing with.

Also, knowing the key signatures in general, tells me a good deal about the circle of fifths/fourths.

The circle of fifths/fourths tells me some good progressions.

Some good chord progressions gives me an idea of how to write a song.

How to write a good song is never that simple.

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by brianrost

It just means I have to remember that certain notes are sharped and flatted without being notated as accidentals...[b]no more, no less[/B

This. That's the way I've always looked at it.

[Mushroo]

Originally Posted by dtsamples

Lol I was only kidding

AHHH! I took the bait! No worries.

[Smokin' Toaster]

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

Key Sigs tell you the key. Whether it is referring to Major or Minor will 99.9% of the time be determined by the very last chord on the music. Do not rely on the very first chord, because it can be a pick up.

From knowing whether it is major or minor, tells me what finger (pointer or middle) I would typically start playing with.

Also, knowing the key signatures in general, tells me a good deal about the circle of fifths/fourths.

The circle of fifths/fourths tells me some good progressions.

Some good chord progressions gives me an idea of how to write a song.

How to write a good song is never that simple.

Yes, to write a song you need a woman to kick you in the teeth, or your dog to die, or a train whistle off in the distance, or, in the case of death metal, some coffins containing rotting corpses hanging around.

[LowDown Hal]

Originally Posted by dtsamples

In order to properly answer your question, I must launch into a discussion of the modes and their use as it pertains to chord theory

What's the best key signature for metal

[jmain]

Originally Posted by LowDown Hal

What's the best key signature for metal

Anything with a flat 5th.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by lmichaels

Hi everyone

I hope this will make some sense. Can more experienced players tell me what is their "mental process" when they meet a new piece of sheet music?

On this point for any level of score/sight reading it is about developing good habits. For me the accidentals are secondary in my thinking in a first read through. What i look for first is repetition of notes and phrasing to get the rhythm of the piece.
I look for phrasing, especially in beamed notes (8,16 or 32nd notes) because they will generally be repeated in the piece, but the pitches will differ. Learning to recognise the rhythm means that i am free to read the notes.
On a second read through i add accidental info such as key sig, time sig, etc to get to know the notes i will play.
On a third read though i will practice or see in my head any parts that i think may trip me up. I picture how the notes will play, i want to get from and to the notes in the best way open to me, so i order them in my head, and/or practice fingerings.

After this i will run it all together a few times to see if i have it. In a payed/pro capacity any problems/questions i have i will talk over with the person in charge, just in case it is a typo, or just a bad piece of notation.
If i feel i cannot handle it i say so and pass it over....there are always others who will cope with it.
If they want me to try it and are willing to invest some time with me on the points i identify as why i would not cope, then i will always try it as that is the process of learning and improving.
To say i can do it, then waste anyones time proving i can't do it is the worst senario there can be and pretty much ensures you won't be hired for any sort of work...even the simplest of jobs, in the fututre.
And by the way, word seems to get round that you should be avoided as you will be more trouble than your worth.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by lmichaels

..... I hope this will make some sense. Can more experienced players tell me what is their "mental process" when they meet a new piece of sheet music? (FYI I am talking about snippets at the level of a method book such as Hal Leonard's.)

I look to see how many sharp signs or flat signs are in the key signature then I recite my handy dandy limerick.

See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos..
Order of the sharp keys - C has none, G has one, D has two, etc. Now which ones.....
Fat Cats Go Down Alleys Eating Birds. C has none G has one the F#, so D would have two the F# and the C#......etc.

Now for the flat key signatures.
Farmer Brown Eats Apple Dumplings Greasley Cooked. One flat sign tells me the song is in F......
F has the Bb, Two flat signs tells me we are in Bb and Bb has itself and the Eb. Eb has the Bb, Eb and the Ab............ etc.

Now each of the key signatures tells you the song is in one of two keys, i.e. one sharp sign tells me the song is going to be in G major or Em. The major and relative minor of the key. The notes of each are the same, the chords are the same - you have to look at how the chords are being used to know if this song is going to be in G major or Em. If the song revolves around the major chords it's in G major. If the song revolves around the minor chords it's in Em.

Now on top of all that there are some rules about how long the notes keep the sharp or flat notation. So go get a sharp # 2 pencil - the one with the big eraser and make notations in the clef.

If it was easy everyone would be reading standard notation........

[mambo4]

well, take into consideration what everyone else has said about the key not telling you everythign abotu fingering. BUT:

I always begin reading by placing my left hand middle finger on the root of the key. It puts my most familiar "don't have to think about it" scale shape right on the key center. But that's just to start. superior fretting positions for specific phrases usually crop up as I learn the piece.

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by Mushroo

Key signatures have nothing to do with modes. If a song uses primarily the Mixolydian mode, for example a blues in G, then you use a key signature of one sharp and write the F natural accidental as needed. Or for example "So What" by Miles Davis uses primarily the D Dorian mode, you write it with a key signature of 1 flat (D Minor) and write the B natural accidental as needed.

There are a few exceptions to this rule, such as an ethnomusicological text dealing with non-western music, or informal jazz lead sheets such as the original Real Book (which uses the misleading key signature of no sharps or flats for "So What").

Nope.

If a piece of music is TRULY in a particular Mode (using your example of So What), the proper key signature would be the Relative Ionian/Major.

The D Dorian key signature has NO flats/sharps.

Likewise, the E Phrygian key signature has NO flats/sharps, NOT one sharp.

Otherwise, they are improperly labeled.

BTW, In my Original Real Book, the key signature for BOTH the D Dorian (A Section) and Eb Dorian (B Section) have no flats nor sharps. Obviously a faulty and inconsistent source to cite from.

* * *

Blues is NOT in a Mixolydian Mode.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

Nope.

If a piece of music is TRULY in a particular Mode (using your example of So What), the proper key signature would be the Relative Ionian/Major.

The D Dorian key signature has NO flats/sharps.

Likewise, the E Phrygian key signature has NO flats/sharps, NOT one sharp.

Otherwise, they are improperly labeled.

BTW, In my Original Real Book, the key signature for BOTH the D Dorian (A Section) and Eb Dorian (B Section) have no flats nor sharps. Obviously a faulty and inconsistent source to cite from.

I would disagree with you here, because I don't think these things have really been standardized to the extent you suggest. That is, AFAICS there isn't one "right" way of dealing with modal music in terms of key signatures, as there is generally accepted to be for music in standard major/minor keys. I've seen it done 3 different ways:

1. Use the key sig of the "nearest" major or minor (eg, G major for a tune in G mixolydian), with accidentals noted as necessary, as Mushroo says.

2. Use the key sig reflecting the actual patterns of sharps/flats (eg, two sharps for E dorian), as you say.

3. Use no key sig at all.

There are arguments to be made for all of these, and I don't think the point has really been settled. Especially since there seems to be so much confusion around regarding what modal music actually refers to.

It's always worthwhile to remember that a key sig is not the key, it's just a convenience for notation. Key sigs certainly make things easier, and I'm glad they were invented, but you don't actually need them and could do without them if you had to.

This also relates to modulation within a piece (as in "So What"). You can change the key sig at the modulation when you write it out, but there's no law saying you have to.