Lack of Rhythm/Creativity

[lowregister]

Hey all,

I have been playing bass for about a 1.5 years and I taught myself. My technical skills are decent and I can play (with enough time) anything you throw my way. I am becoming familiar with music theory and I can navigate the fretboard in the proper keys.

Here's the big irony, I am a bassist but I really don't know how to be a bassist. I have troubles laying down a good foundation for the rest of my band. I have rhythm and I play in time with drummers, but my riffs are too goofy for guitarists to even lay something over-top. This has been going on for a few months now and believe me I'm trying but nothing is coming.

What's strange is when I pick up a guitar and some distortion my riffs sound pretty good. My friends contest that I should be a lead guitarist. Although alluring, my heart truly belongs to bass and its low undertones (plus us bassists are much too modest for lead guitar ).

Any advice would be appreciated!

[Stereo Joe]

I think a good place to start is to just play the root notes of the chords in time with the drummer's kick drum.

After that, you can get as creative as you want (ad octaves or 5ths on the snare hits!), but I think starting really simply and building from there can give you a clearer picture of what is working and what is not.

[Ric5]

Practice with a drum machine daily ... lock in with it ... keep it up until it becomes second nature.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by lowregister

Any advice would be appreciated!

It is just possible that you are innately a guitarist by temperament and instinct - notwithstanding your love for the bass. I know it sounds counterintuitive - one's love for the instrument ought to conquer all, so to speak. But maybe not in your case?

For me, it was kind of the opposite. I played guitar for a few years in my teens - yet for all my attempts to find my voice on the instrument, my improvisations began to sound more and more like bass lines.

Finally, I gave in to the inevitable, bought a reconditioned '66 Precision Bass - and immediately began to find my true musical voice. I'm just sayin'...

MM

Get the 'Bass bible' and just learn about 20 or so of the patterns in it - you'll probably find your skills adapt very very quickly to this new knowledge. This will feed your imagination AND your motor memory. Most of the stuff in it is classic and the pinnacle of simple bass playing in each style - for example, James Jamerson, Aston Barrett.

The Bass Bible seriously I would recommend it.

I think when you're trying to figure out how to fit into the perceived and accepted idiom of bass playing, you should go straight to the greats and copy their lines for a while. This will mean you unconsciously pick up on what makes a good bass line, as opposed to just a good melody (they are very different, as you're finding out).

Also, I can recommend for more advanced rhythmic awareness, start learning percussion. You can make bigger advances in rhythmic awareness by studying pure percussion, then when you come back, it'll be fed into your playing when you approach bass.

There are about a billion percussion resources on the web that are all free. If you can just get a stick and a bell, or a simple drum, work on two hand independence and stuff like that, your bass playing will get much more groovy, believe me.

[phatbass]

Originally Posted by lowregister

Hey all,

I have been playing bass for about a 1.5 years and I taught myself. My technical skills are decent and I can play (with enough time) anything you throw my way. I am becoming familiar with music theory and I can navigate the fretboard in the proper keys.

Here's the big irony, I am a bassist but I really don't know how to be a bassist. I have troubles laying down a good foundation for the rest of my band. I have rhythm and I play in time with drummers, but my riffs are too goofy for guitarists to even lay something over-top. This has been going on for a few months now and believe me I'm trying but nothing is coming.

What's strange is when I pick up a guitar and some distortion my riffs sound pretty good. My friends contest that I should be a lead guitarist. Although alluring, my heart truly belongs to bass and its low undertones (plus us bassists are much too modest for lead guitar ).

Any advice would be appreciated!

1) Think of the notes you want to play
2) Cut half of them out
3) Cut half of what's left out.

My big thing in recent years has been to seriously reduce the fluff in my lines and make what I do play the "monkey notes".

[Cabazon]

Also, listen to a lot more music. Just as reading helps one be a better writer, listening helps one be a better musician.

[cantstopwinning]

One and 1/2 years isn't a long time to be playing, man. I think you are worrying too much too soon. Just get back in that shed and stuff will come together.

[theunknowndude]

+1 to the above, I recently went through this stage so I made my teacher focus on scales and inverting chords and so on for my lessons,... now in band I can invent a few random nice riffs and add a bit of a twist to a simple line so im not just simply following guitars,...

know where your root, 5, octave and minor / major 3rd's are...

a pattern I have been learning is

G -----------------------------1--
D ---------------------------1----
A ------------------------3-------
E ---------------------5----------
(with a minor 3rd)
and
G -----------------------------1--
D ---------------------------1----
A ------------------------4-------
E ---------------------5----------
(with major 3rd)

even just playing ye olde power chord (root, 5th, octave) but mixing that up so rather than just playing root in 8ths or something play a root, octave, 5th...

another thing that I have learnt is the role of the bass player is to mix between the drums and guitars,... I used to be mainly a 'rythm guitarist' and had a hard time swapping to bass but I'm slowly learning and I've been at it about 2 years now,... I figure all my idol's have been playing for decades so if I keep improving I too can get there!

[DWBass]

You're probably playing too many notes which is a no no for bassists (some will argue this). Can you post a recording of something that you do normally??

With the 'too many notes' thing. It's not an absolute no-no, and there will be times when it'll be convention it might be best to break. Listen to 'Whatever gets you through the night' by John Lennon and Elton John - tonnes of notes. Listen to Bach. Tonnes of notes. Listen to Cream. Tonnes of notes.

The question is - what notes? In the bass register, different notes fit at different parts of a phrase or bar better than in others. This takes a bit of experience to get the hang of. Well, maybe a lot.

Even in reggae you can find examples of complicated basslines. Sting on 'the bed's too big without you' - lots of notes, but the right ones. Sounds great.

I recommend the bass bible - from simple to complex, it's all good in those bass frequencies. I think it's the best book out there for getting the principles of different styles and where the pockets are.

As an alternative way of thinking, try thinking about deliberate space. Space is almost like a note, because when you're using big chunky bass frequencies, you change the texture of the band sound a lot when you don't play. This is one of the essences you find in reggae. Again, in 'the bed's too big without you', sting plays a heavy notey phrase, but then he drops out, and the music breathes before he comes back. Think of using space rather than just not playing notes.

Less like you're being told to shut up, more like you're learning the power of your own silence. Deep sh1t. Ommmmmmm.........

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by lowregister

I have rhythm and I play in time with drummers, but my riffs are too goofy for guitarists to even lay something over-top. This has been going on for a few months now and believe me I'm trying but nothing is coming.

sounds like the problem is that your riffs are too goofy for guitarists to play over. It could be a limitation of your guitarists, but to improve your own playing you can't make that assumption. Riffs too goofy? simplify what you play, start by focusing on roots and rhythm, establish a groove first, add tasteful 'goofieness' after the all important groove is there.

Every time someone posts a similar complaint to yours ("i know my scales, chords and theory, I can play in time, but I just can't come up with good bass lines!") My response is the same: Learn more bass lines. Study the work of players you admire or wish to emulate, analyze it, especially how they support the chords with their choices. Transpose the line to other keys, get to know what is going on deeply. Learn entire songs, not just the favorite riffs. each bass line you learn becomes a tool in your creative toolbox, and eventually your own taste and ears will guide you to your own voice.

+1 top the bass bible (Paul Westwood), a very solid catalog of bass lines in various styles.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by lowregister

Hey all,

I have been playing bass for about a 1.5 years and I taught myself. My technical skills are decent and I can play (with enough time) anything you throw my way. I am becoming familiar with music theory and I can navigate the fretboard in the proper keys.

Here's the big irony, I am a bassist but I really don't know how to be a bassist. I have troubles laying down a good foundation for the rest of my band. I have rhythm and I play in time with drummers, but my riffs are too goofy for guitarists to even lay something over-top. This has been going on for a few months now and believe me I'm trying but nothing is coming.

What's strange is when I pick up a guitar and some distortion my riffs sound pretty good. My friends contest that I should be a lead guitarist. Although alluring, my heart truly belongs to bass and its low undertones (plus us bassists are much too modest for lead guitar ).

Any advice would be appreciated!

let us hear you play something... I think it'd be easier to diagnose your problem than us just guessing

[DudeistMonk]

1) Think of the notes you want to play
2) Cut half of them out
3) Cut half of what's left out.

My big thing in recent years has been to seriously reduce the fluff in my lines and make what I do play the "monkey notes".

+1

Sometimes I feel like I'm playing too melodically myself, when I get too carried away and I start stepping on the guitarist, first I...

Cut out the number of notes I play (make the line a little more sparse)

Then I adjust my note choices to focus more on chord tones. Also this can mean limiting my range, since I find a lot of times I forget about the root after the first beat, but if I limit my range to 1,2,3,5 or something then I find my self returning to the 1, usually for the 3rd beat, and doing my job.

I also will try "inverting" my line in order to change it...I usually find myself playing up from the root which leads to a lot of fast fills and such on the way back down...If I work down from the root instead (minor7, low 5th ext) the "fatness" of the notes will cause me to focus more on groove and less on flash.

Save up fills...don't play a fill every 2 bars it will get old fast and just start sounding busy...save that fill for right moment, savor it...play a dead simple line for 7 bars and then melt their faces on that last bar.

Lastly if your compelled to play a lot of notes then start "hanging" on one chord tone for at least a beat or two instead of changing notes every time you pluck. A lot of times when jamming I feel the need to play more notes (trio and a lot of empty space to fill) and if I try to play different notes the whole time it starts sounding like a bass solo (and not even a good one), but if I expend some of those 8ths/16ths pedaling the fifth for a beat or two it fills the space and still sounds like a bass line.

[TheVoiceless]

You need to learn the role of a bass player. Start by listening to more music subjectively. Turn the lights off and close your eyes and picture what the bass is doing. Also why they are playing what they are playing. The bass is the bridge between the drums and guitar. Try and figure out if the bass is playing with the drums or the guitars for each part. I find it hard to write good bass parts that others can play with. Usually the bass compliments what's already being played. Though I have wrote good songs starting with the bass line, its not the role of the bass to be "the song". Unless you are playing something like Primus. But for most music this rule should apply.

Good luck.

[kxt]

sounds weird but spend some time listening to mariachi, polka, etc. you will hear the way the bass (or tuba!) supports the rest of the music and you might even pick up a few good riffs

[Febs]

Originally Posted by theunknowndude

G -----------------------------1--
D ---------------------------1----
A ------------------------4-------
E ---------------------5----------
(with major 3rd)

Unless you're trying to play an A Maj7(b5) arpeggio, I think you need to take another look at what you've written.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by cantstopwinning

One and 1/2 years isn't a long time to be playing, man. I think you are worrying too much too soon. Just get back in that shed and stuff will come together.

Originally Posted by Cabazon

Also, listen to a lot more music. Just as reading helps one be a better writer, listening helps one be a better musician.

I agree with both those above-
1.5 years is nothing...unless you're Mozart.

Since you mentioned "Rhythm" in your subject title-
When I get in a creative crunch &, trust me, after 30+ years of playing & 35+ years of buying albums...it still happens...
I take out a drum transcription book & learn the kick drum part (using my own notes). Then I learn the snare drum part (again, using my own notes). Then I try displacing those kick/snare beats within the bar.
That's a big weapon to own-
The ability to rhythmically displace while in the "heat of the moment".

[HogieWan]

Play the chord notes (1, 3, and 5) and find ways to make one chord move fluidly to the next. Use the other scale notes to bridge any gaps

[fender_funk_man]

1) Keep it simple stupid... your job is rhythmic, as such it all comes from your right hand. Dont play too many notes with the left.
2) Drum machines are a waste of time, they cumbersome, hard to program and when done right play perfect drum lines. This is pointless as all human drummers have a little bit of a margin for error. As an alternative play over recordings of tunes you like and play with live drummers as much as possible.
3) Listen to bass stuff that reallys puts the funk in your junk. It'll provide good inspiration.