lady madonna theory

theshadow2001 · #1 12-22-2007, 08:33 PM

The chords are

/ A D A D / A DA FG A /

note thats not D/A or F/G

Anyway in the first bar the song seems to be in A major going by the chords and McCartneys bass line

But then the F major and G major chords in the second bar are more conducive with something in A minor

The whole things still works. So what's going on?

jimbob · #2 12-22-2007, 08:56 PM

It's Am. I'd confirm it with sheet music, but I remember covering the tune many years ago. The walk-down ((ba ba ba ba part) is decending D Dorian.

DocBop · #3 12-22-2007, 10:41 PM

I'd call it A major the common I-IV of many tunes. Then switches over to the Parallel Minor Ami for the F and G and back to A major. It is a common composition tool to borrow chords from the parallel minor or a mode of the same key.

BassChuck · #4 12-23-2007, 07:54 AM

These things are much easier to understand when you remember that the theory comes after the music is created. I'd be willing to bet a new set of TI's that McCartney wasn't thinking about the theory, just grabing sounds that he liked. McCartney obviously was listening to and in touch with lots and lots of music that was not in the current popular style. In terms of music his point of view was far broader than many other rock musicians of the time.

theshadow2001 · #5 12-23-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob

It's Am. I'd confirm it with sheet music, but I remember covering the tune many years ago. The walk-down ((ba ba ba ba part) is decending D Dorian.

I'm pretty sure its A major. D dorian is the same key as C major or A minor, I think you can really hear that change to a minor feel during the chorus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBop

I'd call it A major the common I-IV of many tunes. Then switches over to the Parallel Minor Ami for the F and G and back to A major. It is a common composition tool to borrow chords from the parallel minor or a mode of the same key.

Hmm never heard of parallel minor before ( well I'm guessing the same as using the relative minor of a key in a song mostly based in it's major key) I'll keep an eye out for it in other songs in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassChuck

These things are much easier to understand when you remember that the theory comes after the music is created. I'd be willing to bet a new set of TI's that McCartney wasn't thinking about the theory, just grabing sounds that he liked. McCartney obviously was listening to and in touch with lots and lots of music that was not in the current popular style. In terms of music his point of view was far broader than many other rock musicians of the time.

Thats great but it doesn't answer the question. Just because Mcartney may or may not know what he's doing musically doens't mean I can't learn some theory from one of his pieces of music.

ryco · #6 12-23-2007, 11:22 AM

It's in A Maj - listen to the bass notes in the riff = AAC#E = A major triad.

In Blues/Rock (and Jazz) progressions it's not uncommon to have Major chords built on the chords whose root is bVI, bVII (and bIII*). I'm not sure the bVII (G) in the chromatic walkup is a true chord root, but a passing note - like the E before it is a passing tone in the D chord.

The notes in the walkdown are the same notes found in the D Dorian scale, but it's not D Dorian. The first four notes are from D Mixolydian (the D chord contains a major third), the next four notes are from G Mix (ditto) > C* > Am.

Rock/Blues harmony is different from traditional classic harmony.

*C = major triad whose root is built on bIII in key of A Maj

DocBop · #7 12-23-2007, 11:46 AM

Parallel Minor means taking the same root and switching to minor or sometimes a mode. That changes some of the notes and the harmonized scale.

So a song in C major you switch to its parallel minor you go to C minor. So you go from C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C to C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C
Harmonized scale.....
CMa7, Dmi7, Emi7, FMa7, G7, Ami7, Bdim, CMa7 to Cmi7, Dmi7b5, EbMa7, Fmi7, Gmi7, AbMa7, Bb7, Cmi7.

jimbob · #8 12-24-2007, 12:12 AM

Hmm...This guy is cool and in serious need of a life at the same time!
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/...S/AWP/lm.shtml

DocBop · #9 12-24-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob

Hmm...This guy is cool and in serious need of a life at the same time!
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/...S/AWP/lm.shtml

Berklee Press puts out a cool book analyzing the music of John Lennon. Then as I've said before when I was in school the teacher used Beatles songs for examples to teach traditional composition. Just shows what are ears accept/likes doesn't change much no matter what the style.

inasilentway · #10 12-24-2007, 12:29 PM

The linked page nails it...DocBop is right but it's even simpler than he states. It's not parallel minor, he simply borrows chords from it. So he just grabs the bVI and bVII and plunks them down into A major. bVI-bVII-I is one of the most commonly used modal borrowing cadences, and it's one of the most powerful ways to resolve to I.

I highly recommend grabbing a book or taking a few lessons to learn about modal borrowing. It is (along with secondary dominants) a commonly used jazz thing that makes a rock song really stand out.

HaVIC5 · #11 12-24-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Rock/Blues harmony is different from traditional classic harmony.

Not really, that's a common misconception. You'll find 95-99% of all of the devices used in rock/blues/pop/jazz harmony somewhere within the common practice classical music cannon. In this case, like several people have said before, you have a typical I-IV-I-IV sort of thing going on proceeded by a modal interchange cadence from the parallel aeolian (minor). This sort of modal interchange is precedented - Paul McCartney wasn't reinventing the wheel here.