Lead Bass?

PurplePurple · #1 06-28-2006, 02:40 AM

I went too jam with theese guys and basically they said that they where thinking of trying too find a bass player who played lead. I was slightly confused when I herd this. They then used Matt Freeman and Les Claypool as examples of bassists that play like this. We ended up just playing Too many Puppies and Tommy the Cat and they want too jam with me again. How exactly would I play lead on bass? Pretend it's a guitar and cary the melody and ignore the pocket? Use alot of effects? Play really fast? Are there any other bassists that I could listen too to find an idea? Will I no longer me a real bass player if I do this?

adge · #2 06-28-2006, 02:56 AM

lead bass in my opinion would be playing the melody, solo-ing etc. sound wise id say it would require playing in the higher register, and possibly with a lot of effects.

but go for it, it sounds like a challenge and a bit of fun!

Erick Lam · #3 06-28-2006, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurplePurple

Pretend it's a guitar and cary the melody and ignore the pocket? Use alot of effects? Play really fast? Are there any other bassists that I could listen too to find an idea? Will I no longer me a real bass player if I do this?

No need to pretend it's a guitar or play fast. I don't know what your bandmates want exactly but I play in a instrumental trio (bass, guitar and drum) and we incorporate the bass as another melodic instrument. You have to forget the so-called traditional "pocket" role of the bass. Listen to some progressive music (I'm a King Crimson and Gentle Giant fan) , and perhaps even better, classical music.

I don't think it's a good idea for the bass to be up front all the time (it gets old) but thinking you won't be a real bassist is silly. Anybody who tells you that is pretty close-minded.

EDIT: Your mates have to work with you. If they play something busy in the low register and you do the same in the mid-register, chances are it will sound muddy. I prefer when the guitar plays some clean open chords, or completely above the bass. The melody doesn't have to be ina higher register than the accompagnement. Experiment.

Alun · #4 06-28-2006, 04:54 AM

I think you may have answered your own question. You say they gave Freeman and Claypool as examples so look at how they play and their role in the band.

It sounds like they want someone who plays an active role in the band rather than just root notes, playing melodies and chords. As mentioned above, this doesn't always mean playing at the top of the neck as fast as possible.

Cheers,
Alun

SirCanealot · #5 07-03-2006, 09:10 AM

Pfffft. Check out some Geddy Lee. Rush bass ftw

James Hart · #6 07-03-2006, 09:39 AM

you can solo without ignoring the pocket

tZer · #7 07-03-2006, 10:29 AM

Playing 'lead bass' is simply putting the bass in a more melodic, and up-front position in the band. Les Claypool is an extreme example - Geddy Lee is, in my opinion, a lead bass player. So is Chris Squire. These guys play lines that go beyond the role of support and offer a melody/counter melody to the singer/guitar/other melody instruments - AND they also maintain a solid foundation for the rest of the band to work over. They have strong, more cutting tones and utilize effects and other 'lead' devices to make their parts stand out.

This style of bass playing (Squire, Lee) really resonates with me. I am nowhere near their caliber, but I definitely cut my teeth on their albums and to this day I am told that people hear their influences in my playing. I use a punchy, middy/trebly tone with some grit and play lines that have lots of motion and melody.

How would you do it? Step up. Play more melodically. Be bold, more 'up front' and definitely play with rock-solid confidence. I think it is essential to maintain the pocket and also the foundation role of the bass, otherwise the music will sound thin. This is another reason I think two bass players in a band could really work well.

dls59 · #8 07-03-2006, 11:07 AM

Listen to the usual suspects, like Chris Squire, Geddy, and throw in Jon Camp from mid-to-late seventies Renaissance.

Zebra · #9 07-03-2006, 02:14 PM

I'd also suggest checking out Paul Simon's "graceland" album. There's a lot of "lead bass" on that, even if it's not immediately apparent. I'd say lead is mostly a matter of playing more melody than harmonic accompanyment. I wouldn't really consider Les Claypool as so much a lead bassist as a prominent player. He's usually playing anything but melody, and most of his stuff is composed of repeated phrases.

tZer · #10 07-03-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebra

I'd also suggest checking out Paul Simon's "graceland" album. There's a lot of "lead bass" on that, even if it's not immediately apparent. I'd say lead is mostly a matter of playing more melody than harmonic accompanyment. I wouldn't really consider Les Claypool as so much a lead bassist as a prominent player. He's usually playing anything but melody, and most of his stuff is composed of repeated phrases.

I agree that "Graceland" has some very 'stand-out' bass parts, but not so sure if they are 'lead bass' parts - same with Paul's "Rhythm of the Saints" - many times the bass lines on that collection are as active as the guitar parts - as far as being melodic and busy. But they are also very subtle and blended with the percussion which sort of differentiates them from being 'lead' lines. They are very active and melodic, but not necessarily 'lead'.

Les' lines are definitely 'lead' lines. They are designed to be in the front of the band and listened to as the primary focus. So I suppose defining a lead part as requiring a melody may be off base. Les' parts are very rhythmic and strange - sometimes melodic, most times just freakin' weird - but almost always meant to be the focal point of the tune.

steveb98 · #11 07-03-2006, 04:34 PM

Lead bass as in solo'ing a lot. Lead as in playing the head of hte tune. Lead as in just be very upfront bass. Lead as more melodic bass than rhythmic.

My guess from the references I would say an upfront bass player. The bass is key to the song and rest of band is mainly supporting the bass. Check out some Mile Davis stuff with a bass player called Foley. He was very much a lead bass player.

Correlli · #12 07-04-2006, 01:09 AM

I don't particularly like the term 'lead bass'. don't know why. just because you string together a few melodic phrases, I can't see why it's now 'lead bass'.

Suckbird · #13 07-04-2006, 03:23 AM

lead bass ?

Serious ?

BrandonBass · #14 07-04-2006, 05:09 AM

If they consider matt freeman a lead bassist, then they must be referring to more melodious bass playing. Instead of playing root notes, and just keeping the rhythm you can create melodies.

You can check out Tetsu of l'arc en ciel, hes has a really melodious style, kinda like geddy lee and freeman. Just go youtube and search ' l'arc en ciel'

Grueber · #15 07-04-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebra

I wouldn't really consider Les Claypool as so much a lead bassist as a prominent player. He's usually playing anything but melody, and most of his stuff is composed of repeated phrases.

check out some songs like "The Ol Diamondback Sturgeon", "Wynona's Big Brown Beaver", "Highball with the Devil", and "Cosmic Highway" for Les Claypool on lead bass. It's true that he does not actually play the melody on most of his songs though, just cool basslines

Other lead bassists:
Marcus Miller
Wayman Tisdale
Stanley Clarke
Oskar Cartaya
Peter Muller
Stu Hamm
Wooten & Steve Bailey(Bass Extremes)
Taddy P http://cdbaby.com/cd/taddyp

tZer · #16 07-04-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

I don't particularly like the term 'lead bass'. don't know why. just because you string together a few melodic phrases, I can't see why it's now 'lead bass'.

My interp of 'lead' is in comparrison to the role of 'older' songs where the basslines were harkening back to the days of upright bass players in blues and rock-a-billy bands. The bass lines were very understated, simple and tended to provide only a foundation of roots and simple walking lines.

In the late 60's bass players began to step out and become less 'support' players and more 'leaders' in the delivery of more interesting and involved lines. These lines were no longer relegated to under-the-radar low notes - they began to provide counter melodies and more active aspects to songs that would allow the bass player to 'show off' a lot more without soloing, as it were. The tones were more aggressive, punchy and even distorted. Players like Jack Bruce from Cream, John Entwistle of The Who, John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin, and Paul McCartney began offering listeners something else to listen to in a song other then the singer and the guitar player - there was now this really great, lower-toned thread that did not just lay there and allow the rest of the music to step on it. It rose up and demanded attention.

As time moved on, bass players began to stand right up at the front of the stage and continue to provide bass lines that went far beyond that of the old-school blues players - these lines were a lot more like guitar lines only lower. They were filled with notes, and challenging riffs and were far from 'simple or simplistic' - many thought them pretentious and overdone, others, like myself, thought, "aha! the bass it a 'players' instrument and can be just as cool and exciting as any other instrument on a rock stage!".

Thanks to players like Chris Squire, Tony Levin, Geddy Lee, Jack Bruce, John Entwistle, Paul McCartney and a whole lot more, the 'lead bass player' was born and brought to legitimacy and thrives to this day in the form of players like Flea, Lemmy, Les Claypool, Victor Wooten, and many, many more! Many are fellow TB'ers!

Long live the Lead Bass Players!

Eric Cioe · #17 07-04-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

My interp of 'lead' is in comparrison to the role of 'older' songs where the basslines were harkening back to the days of upright bass players in blues and rock-a-billy bands. The bass lines were very understated, simple and tended to provide only a foundation of roots and simple walking lines.

What about jazz? Is Paul Chambers a "lead bassist" or a guy that provides "only a foundation of roots and simple walking lines"?

Most of my favorite bass players are somewhere between these extremes. Tony Levin, the most groove-based guy in the industry, has a sense of melody that few others do. Phil Lesh, whose goal in the Dead was to expand the harmonic content of the band, was much more than a "simple bassist," but he wasn't playing melodies, really.

I think the term is stupid. Just play the ****ing instrument.

Correlli · #18 07-04-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

Thanks to players like Chris Squire, Tony Levin, Geddy Lee, Jack Bruce, John Entwistle, Paul McCartney and a whole lot more, the 'lead bass player' was born and brought to legitimacy and thrives to this day in the form of players like Flea, Lemmy, Les Claypool, Victor Wooten, and many, many more! Many are fellow TB'ers!

Long live the Lead Bass Players!

point taken

Jeff Martinez · #19 07-04-2006, 11:45 PM

To me, "lead bass" indicates also having a "rhythm bass". That is something that we are currently trying to work out. We have jammed with a few bassists who just don't want to get "stuck" playing low end while I get the all the glory playing leads. Our guitarist has very little interest in doing anything but rhythm play (which he does better than anyone I've ever jammed with. Luckily, I love that role. I do use a lot of effects, and I do play mostly above the 9th fret. I usually end up double- or triple-tracking on our recordings so the bottom end isn't empty.

kenlacam · #20 07-06-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

Playing 'lead bass' is simply putting the bass in a more melodic, and up-front position in the band. Les Claypool is an extreme example - Geddy Lee is, in my opinion, a lead bass player. So is Chris Squire. These guys play lines that go beyond the role of support and offer a melody/counter melody to the singer/guitar/other melody instruments - AND they also maintain a solid foundation for the rest of the band to work over. They have strong, more cutting tones and utilize effects and other 'lead' devices to make their parts stand out.

This style of bass playing (Squire, Lee) really resonates with me. I am nowhere near their caliber, but I definitely cut my teeth on their albums and to this day I am told that people hear their influences in my playing. I use a punchy, middy/trebly tone with some grit and play lines that have lots of motion and melody.

How would you do it? Step up. Play more melodically. Be bold, more 'up front' and definitely play with rock-solid confidence. I think it is essential to maintain the pocket and also the foundation role of the bass, otherwise the music will sound thin. This is another reason I think two bass players in a band could really work well.

Excellent advice!