Lead Bass Style - Need to be convinced please....

magnusdeus123 · #1 08-04-2007, 08:27 AM

As the thread title suggests , I'm kinda more interested in the Lead bass style of playing the Bass , kinda a lot more than your standard 'Grooving' Basslines . Primarily this stems out of the fact that the music I usually listen to is somewhat Neoclassical / Symphonic (Steve Vai , Black Mages ,Symphony X) , which make use of heavy guitar riff's and shredding to the max and all that good stuff . The thing is I often sit back and realize that I might be in the wrong realm of playing a bass guitar for the stuff I'm trying to achieve . Dont take this wrongly , I love the Bass as an Instrument , and I totally adore cracking out a great basslines that gets everyone's feet tapping to the rhythm , but in my mind there are Lead lines that I'm sercretly rocking onto .

What I need convincing from you guys on , is whether I'm not gonna end up as another 'tard . I follow the logic that , as wikipedia puts it - "Playing the Bass like and oversized guitar" . Playing Lead lines from the various Black mages soundtracks and such . Will I eventually feel limited by the bass and chuck it for a electric guitar ?? Because that is very important to me , because the bass to me is like this lover who you argue with all the time but still come back to her . I love the bass , and lot more over the 6 string , but will it give me what I want from it ?? Will adding a high C string , solve the issue of getting the notes I want from it , If the problem ever arises ?? Coz these days , I keep observing the fingers of guitarists while their cracking out solo's with the intention of mapping the range of their notes , kinda trying to convince myself that I will be able to get that out of the bass if I need to . Anyways , thats that , looking to you guys suggestions , and sorry for the long post .

Bo_H · #2 08-04-2007, 08:42 AM

Just my opinion, but I think there's room in this world for all kinds of bass players. Adam Clayton and Cliff Williams are brilliant in their own way and do what fits their music. On the other hand the Victor Wootens of the world are stretching the boundaries and showing us all that the bass doesn't necessarily have to be the supporting instrument all the time.

Ultimately, I think the choice lies with each individual player and what they want to accomplish. I can't tell you what to choose. You have to do some self-examination and decide what you want to do for yourself. The good thing is that you have the option of changing your mind down the road.

That is just my $.02. Spend it however you want.

Bo

DocBop · #3 08-04-2007, 08:42 AM

Adding string isn't going to help if you can't play a line with feel and conviction on 4 strings what difference is having another string going to be. It doesn't matter if it's a bass, guitar, or oboe if you don't play with conviction and Soul only you will be enjoying it.

I also think a lot of bass players into lead bass and some other solo bass style are only doing it on bass because if they played the same thing on guitar they would just be another guitar player. The only thing unique about what they are playing is they are doing it on a bass. It's if it's good music being played by a musician who can say something with their playing that people notice. Play the whatever instrument you want to make your statement on and let your playing speak for you. If truly dedicated you won't care what others think, you know they will eventually come around.

magnusdeus123 · #4 08-04-2007, 09:18 AM

I understand . I will continue my humble journey into Lead Bass , and find my true purpose as a Bass Jedi......err.....Player . Soon my Knuckles will crack under the strain of playing the FF Battle theme for the 1347th time , and then I shall know my true purpose .

TheBassBetween · #5 08-04-2007, 09:33 AM

I don't see a problem in playing lead bass. YOU play bass how YOU want to, not how you "should" play bass.

But you DO have to remember that if people ask you to play bass for them, they are most likely expecting you to hold down the groove. I'm not sure if you've been in a formal band or anything, but you really start to see your place when you start laying down the groove that the whole band listens to and relies on.

fullrangebass · #6 08-04-2007, 09:54 AM

IMHO the electric bass is a melodic-harmonic-percussive instrument capable of fitting every role. from holding the bottom, to funkying the groove, to wander free in uncharted territories. It's up to us to choose what we feel it suits us. But IMHO the most fun is when people can feel your pounding when you spell out G-R-O-O-V-E with your playing. I love Cliff Williams, Billy Sheehan, Randy Coven, Zuzo Moussawer, Adrian Davison, Mick Karn (to name a few) but each one supports a different role

DocBop · #7 08-04-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnusdeus123

I understand . I will continue my humble journey into Lead Bass , and find my true purpose as a Bass Jedi......err.....Player . Soon my Knuckles will crack under the strain of playing the FF Battle theme for the 1347th time , and then I shall know my true purpose .

The is a book you might consider reading, it is called the Zen of Guitar by Phillip Toshio Sudo. It has nothing to do with guitar but everything about playing music. Zen things to contemplate.

It doesn't get any easier, but it does get better.

Don't ask, practice.

Big ears, not big mouths.

Eli M. · #8 08-04-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBassBetween

I don't see a problem in playing lead bass. YOU play bass how YOU want to, not how you "should" play bass.

But you DO have to remember that if people ask you to play bass for them, they are most likely expecting you to hold down the groove. I'm not sure if you've been in a formal band or anything, but you really start to see your place when you start laying down the groove that the whole band listens to and relies on.

+1

Playing lead bass is fine as long as you also know how to play "regular" bass when that's what the gig calls for.

SirCanealot · #9 08-04-2007, 10:51 AM

OH MY GOD!

Someone mentioned Black Mages! Keiji Kawamori is such a solid player on their two albums, I love his playing! Even though a lot of his bass lines are adapted off Uematsu's original basslines, the way his adapts and plays them are amazing. His tone on both albums, though it's very different, is nothing short of amazing. Hiss picked jazz bass tone on The Skies Above has to be one of the most cutting tones I've ever heard (can hear the Roger Glover in some of the songs :P). Arata is such a solid drummer too. Though guys are really too freaking amazing! I LOVE them! I'd KILL to see them!

All hail Black Mages!!

Sorry to hijack the thread, but any fans of Final Fantasy should really check them out. Some solid hard-rock/prog metal head banging!

ealtdharkon · #10 08-04-2007, 11:15 AM

I've always argued that the word "bass" is a misleading name for the instrument.

What defines it, is not it's range at all (see 11 stringed basses and the like) it's the way it's played.
The way it's strings are spaced out, allowing for several different ways of using the instument to get the sound you want.

The question you need to ask yourself is not about range.
It's what instrument do you prefer to play, where technique is concerned? Do you prefer the close spacing on a guitar, and the shorter neck? If yes, then that's where you should be.
If you prefer the string spacing on a bass, then bass is the way.

Play out a solo on a bass and then on an electric, and choose the one that FEELS best to play.
Not sounds, feels. You want the instrument that you're comfortable with.

Once you've decided that, then you start considering high C strings. Having a larger range would help with soloing, and if you really want those higher pitch notes, maybe consider the 8 string bass? (By which I mean the bassier version of the 12 string guitar, not some mahoosive custom job.)

Hope I've been remotely useful,

Rob

magnusdeus123 · #11 08-04-2007, 11:17 AM

Another Black Mages Fan !!! * Raises his Bass in approval *

Black mages do rock man . Although Nobou Uematsu is the original genius behind the entire composition , I believe the entire team has literally blown off the dust gathered on the old game soundtracks and just made them kick ass . Forget FF fans , any progressive fan........hell any MUSIC fan has to listen to them atleast once . I'd die to see them live in concert (except that they look very gay....{--"}).

@Eatldarkhon {O_o"}
Dude , thanks for the advice . As far as the feel is concered , well I have a guitar right here . I would definitely say cracking out solo's is obviously easy on that dude to the shorter neck , and frets spaced closely . But I love the long neck of the Bass , and the rich caramely tone that it delivers , which seems so much more richer than the *twang* of guitar strings . I think the main issue i deal with is the range of playing the notes . I feel I would need the range of atleast a 5 string to play the type of solo's I dream about , efficiently . But I could be wrong .

owensea777 · #12 08-04-2007, 08:23 PM

Sure, you can play lead bass and enjoy it way more than lead electric guitar. That's kind of a personal preference, though. To play lead bass, you need to be good, and have good enough guitar players to hold down the rhythm. I'm personally persuing a lead fretless bass part with rhythm guitars in the background. On some simpler songs, though, I will certainly have to just hold the rhythm down with the bass.
Look into piccolo basses. That's a six string bass with special strings that you can tune like a guitar, E A D G B e (I think that's right). That should be a perfect mix for you if you can't decide between guitar and bass. You get the bass sound and feel with guitar playability. I've never tried a piccolo bass and can't really speak for them, however.

Niles · #13 08-06-2007, 05:06 AM

Hey there, I'm 46 and been playing (with some years of interruption, not playing) since I was 10. Only recently, however, did I reach a breakthrough in my playing that totally liberated me artistically, even technically. I wish to share it with you, especially regarding your concern about "lead" bass, whether it's okay, etc. Here goes: I discovered what I will call, "Just play." TRanslated, it goes like this: Do NOT keep in your mind any concept of "bass" "lead" "not lead" or anything else. In fact, when you have your bass in your hands, do not even hold "playing" as an awareness or concept in your mind. Just play. Just feel the strings, hold the bass as if it was a part of your body (and it will become a part of you), and let your mind connect with the instrument as it becomes not a separate thing but just your body (saying it is not separate is therefore useless and redundant now). Pull those strings like you'd pull a lover close to you. Push down on the neck like you'd squeeze a friend's hand. Hum and sing along with what your mind comes up with, all the while execute it with your hands. Doing this, you'll soon enough see that all "doing" will blend into one thing, and then that one thing will dissolve and you, the bass, the music will be just one energy. At that point you will see, if you even think of it again, that the question about "Lead" bass becomes irrelevant because there is just....music. Here. Now.

spindizzy · #14 08-06-2007, 06:04 AM

Niles is a wise man.

Spin

louieeadg · #15 08-06-2007, 07:58 AM

"Play the music, not the instrument."

Intune · #16 08-06-2007, 09:11 AM

I played a whole note once...

My band calls me "the lead bass player." I think you really have to be careful about playing higher on the neck and losing the bottom or groove to the song. Certain songs call for certain notes. If the gits & keys have your bottom covered, lead on! Sometimes there is a kind of resentment that you are stepping into "their" territory. Heck, it it works for the song make them adjust to you. Bass is the most important instrument after all, right?

Check out our Myspace page & listen to the bass on Hurricanes & Hell I Waited. I'm motoring around quite a bit. These songs are just rough mixes so don't kick me too hard. http://myspace.com/experiencetheshakes

Oops, forgot I had it in my sig...

magnusdeus123 · #17 08-06-2007, 09:48 AM

I've made a new topic in the 'Technique' forums , which is somewhat related to the entire Melodic/Lead Bass thing , you guys may want to check it out , specially the video I've talked about there . It's kinda a perfect example of what I'm trying to achieve...

Classical guitar style....

DocBop · #18 08-06-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnusdeus123

I've made a new topic in the 'Technique' forums , which is somewhat related to the entire Melodic/Lead Bass thing , you guys may want to check it out , specially the video I've talked about there . It's kinda a perfect example of what I'm trying to achieve...

Classical guitar style....

May want to stick to your Lead bass terminlogy. Melodic bass, Paul McCartney and others are melodic bass players. Your talking about take the lead and playing the head and I assume soloing ala Stanley Clarke.

scootron · #19 08-06-2007, 12:58 PM

When our band was working up our repertoire, I made a conscious effort to stay in the background and hold down the low end 1) because I didn't think I was good enough to step out, and 2) because I assumed that was what the band wanted me to do. One night we were through with the primary work of the practice and were just riffing through some of our tunes, letting our lead player show off (and drinking a fair amount of good Canadian whiskey) and I started exploring some ideas I had. The guys surprised me. They pretty much just stopped, looked at me and said "where the hell did that come from?" Turns out, they wanted more of that. Not on every song, but they felt that a 'busier' bass player, so long as it was tasteful, added to the sound stage they were trying to create. It also made it more challenging and fun for me, trying to create new bass lines.

magnusdeus123 · #20 08-06-2007, 02:10 PM

Right , I kinda screwed up there by mentioning Melodic Bass , because I delved into it a bit , and when I say melodic bass over here , people are gonna think extended supportive basslines , which are still supportive at the end of the day.....or thats what I think I've figured out . What I'm talking about is taking the post of the Lead Guitarist , and instead having a Lead Bassist , probably with a Power Chord'er in the back , to handle the Rhythm . I dont know of Stan Clarlk , and I will check him out , but Stu Hamm definitely comes to mind .