learning chord tones - but why?

[dalconthenovice]

i've been going over an old book one of my former teahers gave me by jeff berlin "a comprehensive chord tone system for mastering the bass" and its pretty thorough and goes over the major chord tones major 7, minor 7, minor 7b5, dominant 7, augmented 7, minor/major 7, minor 6, diminished 7, augmented major 7,

which is all good and all but just memorizing the chord tones isn't going to do jack for me, i need to know WHEN to use them and WHY i need to know them or else i'm jsut going to forget this stuff if i can't find out the importance behind memorizing these chord tones and fingering figurations

so... going over the five w's
why do i need to know these chord tones
when do i use them?
what do i use them for?
HOW do i use them?
(who not included)

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

i've been going over an old book one of my former teahers gave me by jeff berlin "a comprehensive chord tone system for mastering the bass" and its pretty thorough and goes over the major chord tones major 7, minor 7, minor 7b5, dominant 7, augmented 7, minor/major 7, minor 6, diminished 7, augmented major 7,

which is all good and all but just memorizing the chord tones isn't going to do jack for me, i need to know WHEN to use them and WHY i need to know them or else i'm jsut going to forget this stuff if i can't find out the importance behind memorizing these chord tones and fingering figurations

so... going over the five w's
why do i need to know these chord tones
when do i use them?
what do i use them for?
HOW do i use them?
(who not included)

You need to learn basic theory.

For example, dominant 7ths are used in most any chord except the one chord. (Except in a blues).

The tonic chord is almost always major 7.

And then there's "hearing" what's right.

Work on it.

[BigOldHarry]

If you have to ask...

[Sparkdog]

A bunch of guys with far more formal theory knowledge than me are going to jump in here, but simply put, chords are what songs are constructed from. If you understand chord structure as well as the keyboardist and guitarist you are going to be able to outline those chords and move between them in much more interesting and musical ways than just hitting the roots.

Have at it boys!

[dalconthenovice]

i know it may sound like a foolish and newbish question but its an honest quesiton that is running through my mind

[DrayMiles]

All songs have chords, what are you going to do.. pedal on the root all night? If you know the notes of the chords you're free...

In jazz anyway...

[dalconthenovice]

i guess its a weird question because i'm coming from a jam band root where we mostly just choose a key and don't have any real progressions just sort of float around the scale

[dalconthenovice]

i mean guys feel free to be brutaly honest if i'm being a fool, i want to clear up my foolish ways

[TrevorOfDoom]

listen to jazz. that'll give you a pretty good idea why knowing the chords is a helpful thing.
and while your current jam band thing may not utilise fully the knowledge you're gaining, can you honestly say you'll always be playing in a jam band of the same ilk? no? then learn theory!!

[dalconthenovice]

got recommendations as to what books i can get that would comprehensively teach me theory to the degree in which you are talking about?

[MalcolmAmos]

Those are all the chords you will encounter in a complicated piece of lead sheet or fake chord sheet music. \http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4x0u...eature=related
If you've put those chord tones into muscle memory - you will be able to call upon them when playing from that sheet music.

If you do not get that involved then most of this is not necessary.

[Dutchyman]

The chords and chord tones have to do with the sonic feel of the music, and the chord tones ( maj 7, dom 7, etc) are what distinguish it from other chords with the same root. A Cmaj chord sounds one way, but throw a b7 on top and the feel really changes! What those tones also help you do is decide what scale you want to use to create your line/solo.
With that same C/C7 example, you could use C Ionian (c major) mode (scale) but it wouln't work with C7, as the 7 is major in C Ionian. You probably want C mixolydian (same as major, but with a b7) to keep with the chord tones.
I'm sure I'm explaining this terribly, and I hope some more theory-adept folks come in to help, and not ridicule for asking questions that help you grow as a musician.

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

i guess its a weird question because i'm coming from a jam band root where we mostly just choose a key and don't have any real progressions just sort of float around the scale

You answered your own question. You're not a musician yet -- just a guy who learned where a few notes are on the bass. Anybody can learn that in a few weeks. That's not a musician. Step # 1 is learning songs.

[dalconthenovice]

never claimed to be a musician, that requires alot more knowledge and musical adeptness than i currently have

which is why i asked this question in the first place

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

never claimed to be a musician, that requires alot more knowledge and musical adeptness than i currently have

which is why i asked this question in the first place

learn them.....time and practice will reveal the uses .....perhaps the game is a tad early for the big picture....

[sedgwick1489]

oh, easy answer. In that book is a solo over blues changes called "In Search of the Lost Chord Tone" The solo is comprised of chord tones ONLY. No passing tones, scale tones, approaches, etc. Learn that solo, or listen to Jeff play it if you have the cassette that came with the book, and you'll hear the answer to your question! That is the how, when, why! Good luck and keep at it. Important stuff!

[ajb]

I know it sounds complicated right now but it really isn't. If you know your chord tones, and you know your guitarist is playing a specifc chord (let's say a simple Am chord), then you go into your data bank and fish out the chord tones for the Am chord. Those are the main notes that you should focus on in coming up with your basslines (at this stage in your development, at least).

BUT notice that I said IF you know the chord your guitarist is playing. If your guitarist has no clue what he is playing and/or can't communicate effectively, then you are kinda stuck (unless you are a bassist with lots of experience and can recognize chords by ear -- which it doesn't sound like you can at this point -- no problem just keep at it!). But if your guitarist has good theoretical knowledge and can communicate, then like I said it's a matter of knowing the chord and then focusing on the corresponding chord tones.

None of this stuff is easy to execute and takes years to master (and MUST be integrated with a well trained EAR to get the most out of it). Just keep practicing. In your jams i would focus on knowing whether the chord is major or minor or just a basic power chord. Focus on the chord tones to the basic power chord (just add a 5 note) and major and minor chords -- stuff your guitarist is most likely playing. Don't worry about more "complex" chords just yet (7 chords, augmented chords, etc.) UNLESS your guitarist tells you he is playing one of those chords.

Hope that helps . . .

[fingerbun]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

never claimed to be a musician, that requires alot more knowledge and musical adeptness than i currently have

which is why i asked this question in the first place

I think some of the replies here are a tad harsh. It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Bass lines are made up of notes and the notes are selected from chords, scales and modes. If you know the chords and scales you know how to choose notes that sound good.

Noone starts off knowing that stuff so don't be intimidated but do spend time studying it. Just knowing major and minor is enough for simple stuff but it's a limit pretty quickly. It jars when a bassist uses a perfect 5th in a diminished or augmented chord for example.

It's a long journey. Noone here knows everything. Keeping learning is part of the fun here.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

i guess its a weird question because i'm coming from a jam band root where we mostly just choose a key and don't have any real progressions just sort of float around the scale

In general, the bassist is expected to do 2 things, musically:
support the rhythm and support the harmony.
understanding Chord tones helps you support the harmony.

Even within a single key you can move through several chords. Most songs do.
Even when people who know "nothing" about theory write a couple riffs that go together,
there is a very high chance that some kind of harmonic progression is being outlined, intentionally or not.

I've seen a lot of "chord theory" books/lessons where they are long on example and short on explanation.
Here's the short explanation:
every key (7 note scale) implies 7 specific chords
-one for each note of the scale as the root.
What flavor of chord it is (major, minor, dominant etc) depends on what key your in and which scale tone the root falls on.

Search for threads discussing harmonizing a scale. It's all that I-IV-V and ii-V7-I roman numeral jargon.

---------

One of the most valuable things you can do to understand chord tones is break down bass lines (yours or your bass heroes') in a functional way:
look a the chord of the moment, then analyze the line , see where the chord tones show up and how they get used.
By doing this you "free" any bassline you study from being locked into a specific song or key, and it becomes a flexible tool in your bag.

[Rebecky]

If you ever plan to improvise a walking bassline over chords then you'll really need to know this inside out. It can also help to create your own basslines in any genre and give you a better understanding of already existing music.