Learning Giant Steps

[henry2513]

I've started studying Giant Steps, a super frustrating song.

I've got an incredible teacher and what he's having me do is transition from walking over the tune to soloing over it by playing 8th notes at different tempos over the changes in the upper register.

I thought that I could share some challenges here and (hopefully) any victories so that anyone who is thinking of tackling this tune can gain some insights from my struggles lol

Here's a video of my attempt on the exercise I was given. It's super challenging playing ONLY 8th notes and trying to make it swing. I've been working at right hand dynamics for the last month and I think I succeed at times and fail miserably others but that's about the only positive thing I have to say about this vid.

Lots of rough spots in the vid and a train wreck lol but there'd nothing to be gained by posting a reasonably good attempt.

http://youtu.be/mGBfok6pP4I


Hopefully others who have already kicked this tunes ass can chime in with insights for us who are still wrestling with this one.

[onlyclave]

The biggest challenge in this video is intonation. Just sayin.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

The biggest challenge in this video is intonation. Just sayin.

Ha , that's the least of my problems at this stage of learning this tune. I have much bigger problems than that lol.

[Snarf]

Meh, honestly all Giant Steps is is a bunch of really fast key changes, except for the first couple bars, and you can just use some hyper-diminished-augmented junk over that. Practice your tonal centers and changing them up quickly.

I practiced that tune for probably hundreds of hours. How many times have I had to blow over the changes on stage? Zero. The tune is just an exercise anyway.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by Snarf

Meh, honestly all Giant Steps is is a bunch of really fast key changes, except for the first couple bars, and you can just use some hyper-diminished-augmented junk over that. Practice your tonal centers and changing them up quickly.

I practiced that tune for probably hundreds of hours. How many times have I had to blow over the changes on stage? Zero. The tune is just an exercise anyway.

Yeah, that's the same thing my teacher said, just a bunch of key changes really and the the last bar in the tune and the first 7 bars is a bunch of V I's etc that are parallel. He pointed out that the tune starts a bar early and if you move the last II-V to the to top the first 7 bars plus the last bar in the tune are the same harmonic pattern. Pretty cool.

I agree it's just an exercise but IMO valuable.

[JimmyM]

I don't know...in the right hands, Giant Steps can move me on an emotional level, which I can't really say about a lot of bebop. I'd say that the more you do it, the more you will take those notes you're playing and come up with interesting little takes on it. You seem to have a good grasp of what notes to play, but sound a little unsure of how to make it sound more interesting. I say go right to the source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6NCx0wcrC4

Check out what Coltrane and Tommy Flanagan do in their solos. Check out some other versions of it, too. I remember the late Shawn Lane having a great version of it on guitar. If you're having a hard time thinking of something to do, steal licks from the other versions. Everyone steals.

Honestly, I might have started you soloing with something a little easier but you sound like you're hanging and getting a grasp of it so it's all good.

[eee]

Tommy Flanagan totally botches his solo in the original recording, it's kind of funny. Can't say I'd do any better though.

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by henry2513

I've started studying Giant Steps, a super frustrating song.

I've got an incredible teacher and what he's having me do is transition from walking over the tune to soloing over it by playing 8th notes at different tempos over the changes in the upper register.

I thought that I could share some challenges here and (hopefully) any victories so that anyone who is thinking of tackling this tune can gain some insights from my struggles lol

Here's a video of my attempt on the exercise I was given. It's super challenging playing ONLY 8th notes and trying to make it swing. I've been working at right hand dynamics for the last month and I think I succeed at times and fail miserably others but that's about the only positive thing I have to say about this vid.

Lots of rough spots in the vid and a train wreck lol but there'd nothing to be gained by posting a reasonably good attempt.

http://youtu.be/mGBfok6pP4I


Hopefully others who have already kicked this tunes ass can chime in with insights for us who are still wrestling with this one.

looking at that video I'd say both tone and intonation are issues here.
Slowing it right down and using simpler lines might allow you to sort both issues whilst actually learning the tune properly whilst playing something that sounds like music.
Good luck and have fun!
.....Always have fun!

[HaVIC5]

Sounds like a good, honest, first attempt. I'd recommend checking out this 10-part series by Ben Levin - it's an exhaustive creative "primer" on Giant Steps, and really gets you thinking musically rather than treating the thing like an exercise.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...smTt-U6UDNYjTd

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I don't know...in the right hands, Giant Steps can move me on an emotional level, which I can't really say about a lot of bebop. I'd say that the more you do it, the more you will take those notes you're playing and come up with interesting little takes on it. You seem to have a good grasp of what notes to play, but sound a little unsure of how to make it sound more interesting. I say go right to the source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6NCx0wcrC4

Check out what Coltrane and Tommy Flanagan do in their solos. Check out some other versions of it, too. I remember the late Shawn Lane having a great version of it on guitar. If you're having a hard time thinking of something to do, steal licks from the other versions. Everyone steals.

Honestly, I might have started you soloing with something a little easier but you sound like you're hanging and getting a grasp of it so it's all good.

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. I actually asked my teacher to help me through Giant Steps so whatever pain is self inflicted hahaha.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Sounds like a good, honest, first attempt. I'd recommend checking out this 10-part series by Ben Levin - it's an exhaustive creative "primer" on Giant Steps, and really gets you thinking musically rather than treating the thing like an exercise.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...smTt-U6UDNYjTd

Thanks for the link, I watched a few videos this is super helpful, I appreciate it!

[gimmeagig]

Originally Posted by henry2513

Ha , that's the least of my problems at this stage of learning this tune. I have much bigger problems than that lol.

I don't think there is a bigger problem than intonation when you play fretless. If you can't play something in tune it's always going to be painful to the listener and (hopefully) to yourself as well.
I went to a guitar clinic at a college with Scofield many years ago. A student asked him how he approaches playing over Giant Steps. Scofield's response was "I don't know why you would want to play this tune...Much too hard!" That was funny. I'm sure Scofield could shred over that tune.
The teacher who was in the room got all red faced but there is some truth to that. Just from a practical working musician's standpoint, In the time that you can get Giant Steps together you could probably nail 20 other tunes that people actually call on jazz gigs. Chances are that even if you totally nail it, it's still going to sound like crap because everybody else is going to struggle.
But if you are into the challenge and you like to torture yourself, keep on going.You're doing good so far.You're a hell of a lot further along in that process than I ever got and probably a lot of guys who actually claim to know it.

[gimmeagig]

Oh yeah and check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vace3AdCc1E

[JoeWPgh]

There's a much older song that Giant Steps is rumored to have been drawn from. Roger's & Hart's, Have You Met Miss Jones. The challenging part here is limited to the bridge. And it's a great tune. Get a handle on this and Giant Steps should come easier.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by gimmeagig

I don't think there is a bigger problem than intonation when you play fretless. If you can't play something in tune it's always going to be painful to the listener and (hopefully) to yourself as well.
I went to a guitar clinic at a college with Scofield many years ago. A student asked him how he approaches playing over Giant Steps. Scofield's response was "I don't know why you would want to play this tune...Much too hard!" That was funny. I'm sure Scofield could shred over that tune.
The teacher who was in the room got all red faced but there is some truth to that. Just from a practical working musician's standpoint, In the time that you can get Giant Steps together you could probably nail 20 other tunes that people actually call on jazz gigs. Chances are that even if you totally nail it, it's still going to sound like crap because everybody else is going to struggle.
But if you are into the challenge and you like to torture yourself, keep on going.You're doing good so far.You're a hell of a lot further along in that process than I ever got and probably a lot of guys who actually claim to know it.

I like to torture myself haha, actually it's not so much torture as fun, I enjoy working on this tune, even if it is frustrating. My intonation did suffer in that video because of the difficult time I was having trying to make it swing and control dynamics but I'm having an easier time of it now so i can focus on my intonation more.

I hear you about learning this tune, it's actually making the other tunes I'm learning a bit easier.

[Araman]

playing Giant Steps is not difficult if you play it (very)slowly ( then you can play it faster and faster)
it's difficult because of the tempo

[Zootsuitbass]

Not that I can do it. But the big picture point is to be able to impose those changes over other tunes. ALA Coltrane.