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10-23-2011, 11:27 PM
| | | | Learning how to read music..
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I just started taking formal music lessons and just started learning how to read about a month ago..
Its been extremely frustrating and i still suck.. Ive been practicing about 30 mins everyday just on reading!..
I still have to play super super slow...
Does it just take time?
Its way harder than i thought.. cause of notes, rhythms etc...
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If I keep practicing one day I might be good
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10-23-2011, 11:37 PM
|  | nyuk nyuk nyuk
Affiliated with Tune Guitar Maniac | | Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles California | | Hang in there, you're on the right track. Practicing slowly, every day WILL get you there. And things will get easier as you start to see the same symbols over and over again. Be patient, you've only just begun and it's worth it!  |
10-23-2011, 11:53 PM
| | | | When I took up music in 5th grade on clarinet, I spent about 1 hour a day - those were the days, no? When I took up guitar about two years later, I spent less time reading and more time learning. When I took up bass about two years after that, I really concentrated on reading.
I know you have less time being in your mid-20s, but it will be worth it. I went about 10 years without reading at all after that, and then bought a double bass and re-learned reading in a new context. Keep at it - take a few notes at a time and connect them to chord tones and then you begin to realize that the notes in between the stave lines are just non-chord tones for certain chords, and vice versa.
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10-24-2011, 01:52 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Michigan | | | It's a lot like learning how to read English. You started by identifying the letters then slowly and painfully sounding them out. Then, with time and practice, you began to see and recognize groups of those letters as words. Before long you will see and recognize groups of rhythms and will also start to see individual notes as groups of recognizable intervals.
Does it take some time? Yes.
Can it be frustrating? Absolutely.
Was anyone good at it right away? No.
You just have to employ the same process that you used to learn to read English. Ignore those things and stick with it until you can do it.
A little bit every day is the key, it beats longer sessions with more time off in between. |
10-24-2011, 04:42 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cincinnati | | Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffT  It's a lot like learning how to read English.......... Does it take some time? Yes.
Can it be frustrating? Absolutely.
Was anyone good at it right away? No.
You just have to employ the same process that you used to learn to read English. Ignore those things and stick with it until you can do it. | Totally true, this can't be overstated. Let me add too that there is a difference in that with the written word you are left to your own devices to go at whatever speed is necessary to get the job done. With music, you've got time and tempo involved and that makes it just a tad more interesting.
Work with a metronome. No matter how slow you have to go... make sure you are doing your practice at a steady tempo. This is very important. You are training your mind to interpret symbols and react accordingly (the same as you are doing by reading this). If you 'allow' yourself to take time to interpret, you are also practicing "taking your time". You have to train yourself to read at a certain tempo. This is important.
Reading music is a skill, not a talent. It takes time.
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Never confuse beauty with things that put your mind at ease. -Charles E. Ives
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10-24-2011, 06:00 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: South Florida | | +1 to what has already been said. What I still do is sing out the rhythms alone and then match it up to the bass. While tab is great , reading bass clef and treble is an advantage to just playing by ear. Hang in there , you'll get it..  |
10-24-2011, 07:18 AM
| | | the Adam Nitti site has a section on learning to recognize intervals on the staff. That has decreased my frustration with learning to read music. It doesn't take long to learn to recognize certain common patterns, so you just have to read one note and then work from some common recognized intervals (like ascending 1 3 5 or descending 5 ) and if you know your theory better than you know you're staff (like me), it reinforces the note reading. Site Reading Intervallically |
10-24-2011, 07:38 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: UK | | Quote:
Originally Posted by cire113 i still suck | It's not you that sucks - it's the way that music is notated.
The basic problem : The staff assumes that the key of C is king, so the actual semitone interval represented by adjacent lines/spaces is not consistent! So we have to fall back to this stupid system of 'accidentals'.
Also, it's clumsy to represent things like triplets, swing, etc - there's an assumption that the basic time division is 2.
Of course, human ingenuity being what it is, it's entirely possible to learn it very well - but don't think 'hey, this should be easy'.
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10-24-2011, 08:05 AM
| | | | One of the side benefits to learning to read is that you learn every note on the bass. This is extremely helpful no matter what you end up doing. |
10-24-2011, 11:33 AM
|  | On the TB leaderboard for low talent/gear ratios! | | Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: NJ | | I've been taking lessons with my current instructor for about a year and a half, I told him up front I refuse to use tab in my lessons (he's still grateful for that!  ), and I also told him I only want to use books that have standard notation in them. The rationale was to force myself to learn to read. Eighteen months later, can I sit down with any piece of music and just play it the first time through? Hell no. Am I better than when I started? Hell yes.
The easiest answer is that there is no shortcut. The more you do it, the easier it will get and the better at it you'll become.
I get frustrated all the time because I don't get a lot of practice time. But my instructor understands my current stage of life (wife who travels on business, a son who plays club level soccer, plays on his high school soccer team, plays in the high school jazz band and wind ensembles, and moonlights in the marching band when he has time. IOW I have NO free time! ). But my goal is to have a good foundation laid by the time my son gets out of high school and, presumably, I'll have more time to put into playing. So I'm happy to do as much as I can and I look for progress over time. I wish I could get farther faster but at the same time I'm also amazed at how far I've come.
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10-24-2011, 05:16 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Planet Earth | | | i'm also learning how to read music, a little more than half way through Ed Friedlands all in one book Hal Leonard Complete Edition...great book! but...does it show you how to read music on the whole fretboard? or just up to 7th or 8th position or so? if not, what book does cover all notes on the fretboard? or am i asking prematurely since i've not finished the book? i've peeked ahead in the table of contents, not sure if it covers every note on the bass...again, not sure yet though...just curious...i'm now obsessed with learning how to read... |
10-24-2011, 05:28 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: UK | | Quote:
Originally Posted by raul i'm also learning how to read music, a little more than half way through Ed Friedlands all in one book Hal Leonard Complete Edition...great book! but...does it show you how to read music on the whole fretboard? or just up to 7th or 8th position or so? if not, what book does cover all notes on the fretboard? or am i asking prematurely since i've not finished the book? i've peeked ahead in the table of contents, not sure if it covers every note on the bass...again, not sure yet though...just curious...i'm now obsessed with learning how to read... | Surely once you get to 5th position, everything is the same, just one string lower?
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10-24-2011, 05:58 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2005 Location: Over Here | | | A friend of mine who is a music teacher said that music is basically another laguage that you speak through your instrument. And the older you are the harder it is to learn a new language.
After trying for years, I finally learned to read music a few months ago. I dont practice reading as much as I should though. I still play slow when reading as well, but I know that with practice, I will be able to read better. Also, I do have to be more disciplined as I get lazy and read the tab in my music books or play song things I have memorized.
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10-24-2011, 06:03 PM
|  | Be happy | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia | | Quote:
Originally Posted by topo morto Surely once you get to 5th position, everything is the same, just one string lower? | Reading notes and finding them on the instrument are separate skills. Part of the point of doing scales and arpeggios is that you teach your hands how to move between related notes, therefore when you see those notes written your hands already know what to do.
Not sure how the specific books referenced cover this. I learned to read by (1) elementary piano lessons when I was a kid (2) having to fake charts in my 30's and (3) double bass lessons where for the first time I seriously confront the science of reading, in my case through Simandl and the orchestral pieces I play.
As a player I tend to be very aware of the chords and rhythm. As a jazz player I could use this....if a line was too hard for my limited reading I could often still see what chord the chart was built on and improvise something that worked, even if not what written (I still do that sometimes when a line is too hard).
As an orchestral player there is no room to hide. The rhythm and tempo are not constant, and the note selection can be incredibly unpredictable, so you have to be able to play the notes as written without any idea how they are going to sound. For that reason, if you want to be a really good reader, I would recommend orchestral study.
There is no reason Simandl's exercises and etudes could not be used on electric bass, though they are design for orchestral upright. |
10-25-2011, 06:41 PM
| | | | thanks stumbo and everyone else... ill keep at it...
My teacher is really focusing on my ****** reading while i am just waiting for him one day to talk about improvisation lol
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If I keep practicing one day I might be good
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10-25-2011, 11:45 PM
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10-26-2011, 12:10 AM
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Endorsing: Ampeg | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Apopka, FL | | Quote:
Originally Posted by cire113 thanks stumbo and everyone else... ill keep at it...
My teacher is really focusing on my ****** reading while i am just waiting for him one day to talk about improvisation lol | That's called "learning to crawl before you learn to run." You need the reading skills so you can understand what he's talking about when it comes time for improvisation lessons.
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10-27-2011, 05:12 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: S. Florida | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by JimmyM That's called "learning to crawl before you learn to run." You need the reading skills so you can understand what he's talking about when it comes time for improvisation lessons. | You took the words outta my mouth!!!
Cire, that's exactly what Nicky is doing. He realized that your reading needs to be at a certain level before he can give you the goods.
Does he have you running major and melodic minor modes and arps yet?? |
10-30-2011, 10:22 PM
| | | | When I began working with my teacher, I had a fair amount of technique and some music knowledge, but apparently understanding theory and knowing how a scale is made is different from sightreading.
We focused on reading for about four months before we began working on jazz. I mean, it was stuff that was way, way beneath my playing, technique-wise. It was hard for me to believe, while I was struggling with it, how bad I was at it! It was like I had never been that bad at anything before.
About a year and a half later I am able to read all kinds of rhythms in any key. My reading practice these days is mostly Jamerson material w/ Simandl. Because some of the rhythms are complicated for me, I still begin working on a song at 60-70bpm, but Motown sure beats "Michael Row Your Boat Ashore" or whatever.
Being able to go through a book like Bert Ligon's "Linear Harmony" and play the licks at a reasonable speed while reading about the analysis is so much fun by itself that it doesn't occur to me that I'm trying to be a great jazz player and I still have a long, long way to go.
Besides, most people will learn better if they have a variety of representations of the material they are trying to learn. The aural expression of music is the most critical, of course, but seeing the notes on the page sure did help me start to feel the groove through the measure.
PS, learn to read treble clef. It does get a little confusing, but in this world, unless you're looking at an educational bass product, you're probably going to be seeing mostly treble clef. I think this is much easier to do all at once, like you would with piano.
Last edited by Anonymatt : 10-30-2011 at 10:26 PM.
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