learning how to sing and play bass.

[UnderDogbassist]

i didn't really know where to put this so i put it here. i've been singing for a number of years, far more than the years i've been playing bass (only a couple). ever since i started playing i've wanted to put them together (the whole reason i started playing was so i can play an instrument and sing in a band). problem is whenever i try it i can't do it, either the lyrics turn to mumbling or the notes follow the bassline, or the bass line gets screwed up and really legato or basic, so i was wondering how, if you did, you guys learnt to put these 2 things together, unless you were born with the ability to sing and play an instrument (i envy you). so yeah any tips, cuz right now i'm getting really frustrated and stressed that i can't do it lol.

[TheDude007]

Well, I can't tell you what THE way to do this is, but I can tell you what's worked in my experience. For me what has worked has been nailing the song on bass until it becomes second nature, then working in the lyrics over that. And yeah, there might be some mumbles, etc, along the way, but if you practice it enough it will be there.

[UnderDogbassist]

do you think that's what ppl like geddy lee, tom araya, sting, les claypool, lemmy do? make the bass part second nature? i'm kind of curious if that's what they do or they can jjust pull that out of their minds lol.

[Steve Dixon]

for most people, it's not easy... it's certainly not easy for me...

I sing about 1/3 of my band's songs and backing vocals on nearly all the rest and it's mostly a case of knowing the bass lines really well & knowing the vocals really well, and then not thinking too much about either, whilst you're doing it

if you come to a really tricky bit, trying slowing it RIGHT DOWN and doing them together... usually the hardest bits are when your vocal is doing 1 rhythm and the bass is doing another... I find it helps to discover all the bits they join up, and all the bits where they diverge... work out where the bass plays a note at the same time the vocal has a note, and then 'poke through' the other bass notes around the gaps in the vocal...

sorry, that's probably a really poor way of explaining it... I'm trying to put into words what I kinda do naturally.. hope you get what I'm trying to get across

practice practice practice... you do get better at it the more you do it... and it's about 10x more fun doing both together than just doing 1 or the other, if you can pull it off

finally - no-one will shoot you if your vocal or bass line isn't exactly like the record... if you need to simplify half a bar or whatever of bass so you can sing over it, then do it

oh, and start with some simple songs... if you try to sing and play Rush stuff right at first, it's asking for trouble.. try really easy stuff so you can get used to hearing your bass rumbling away whilst you're singing one hard thing at first is NOT singing your bass notes by mistake

[jelpo]

I sing backups. For me it's not easy nor intuitive and sometimes on some songs, I just can't do it. Sometimes the melody versus the bass line is just to opposite for me or the bass line is so rhythmical that I can't put another rhythm over it.

In short, it takes practice. I agree with TheDude007 because that works for me. You have to own the song on bass then add the lyrics. Some songs are easier than others. Practice, Practice, Practice.

One other thing, when you do practice, I advise to practice with a mic, so, you get used to singing into the mic. Or you might end up like I did on stage and not singing into the mic cuz you're looking at your fingers or something.

[jelpo]

Originally Posted by UnderDogbassist

do you think that's what ppl like geddy lee, tom araya, sting, les claypool, lemmy do? make the bass part second nature? i'm kind of curious if that's what they do or they can jjust pull that out of their minds lol.

I think for some it's more of a natural ability.

+1 with Steve Dixon on not thinking too much about it and simplify a vocal or bass line.

[JamieMcMe]

Originally Posted by Steve Dixon

one hard thing at first is NOT singing your bass notes by mistake

This is especially difficult when practicing by youself IME. In a band context, I find it a lot easier, as it's like singing along to a backing track. (Even though I can never hear myself when I'm singing anyway )

I've been lucky to have been singing for a while, and in my band, my bass parts are relatively simple, but still rhythmic. Keep trying at it, and don't concentrate too much on nailing either part, and it should come. Once you can do it on one song, it'll get a lot easier.

Of course, YMMV.

[tomo69]

I was a rhythm guitar player before I became a bass player (I know, I know) and was used to strumming guitar in time with what I sang. When I switched to bass and had to sing a lead I found I had to learn each part - the vocal and the bass part- completely separately (no singing while playing, no playing while singing). At the point that I knew each part down cold separately, I could begin to put them together until both parts were working.

It worked for me, hope someone else may find it useful.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by UnderDogbassist

do you think that's what ppl like geddy lee, tom araya, sting, les claypool, lemmy do? make the bass part second nature? i'm kind of curious if that's what they do or they can jjust pull that out of their minds lol.

I recall see or reading an interview with Geddy Lee and that is pretty much how he described it. He learns the bass until he can play it without thinking and then he works on the vocals.

I'm one of those people who can't do it, but then, I never spent a lot of time trying to learn it.

[Johnny Crab]

Originally Posted by TheDude007

For me what has worked has been nailing the song on bass until it becomes second nature, then working in the lyrics over that. And yeah, there might be some mumbles, etc, along the way, but if you practice it enough it will be there.

+1000000000000
It is VERY similar to putting two different parts together on piano as I've seen my son do and describe. Get each part down(in our cases the basslines and the vocals) and then merge them. Your mind will sort-of float between the two but NEVER totally concentrate on one over the other or one will get messed up. Even that takes effort at times(i.e. tough lines and vocals at the same time OR timing differences between vocals and bass, etc.)
To quote Journey's earlier bassist "If you're thinking, you're stinking!".

You can see this talented man doing the "floating" thing by watching his eyes(and the sideways glance down at strings, etc.). Don't get discouraged, this guy's been doing both for a LONG time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDc7rGGio-0

[UnderDogbassist]

does anybody have a good suggestion towards what songs i should start with, like for practicing the 2nd nature thing, i mean like previously stated if i tried jumping into rush first day i'd be screwed. so yeah, any suggestions

[TheDude007]

I would pick stuff with pretty easy bass lines that maybe just hang around the root a lot. I hate to use it as an example because I'm not a fan of the song, but Smells Like Teen Spirit would probably be a good example. Quarter-note bass line for the most part during the verses, guitar is pretty sparse so there's room to hear yourself, and vocals aren't overly challenging. Again, I don't like using that as an example, it just kind of pops into my head when I think of easy songs.

I play in a band that does all originals, and 9 times out of 10 we write the music first and then put lyrics to it later. So we practice the song till we've got it down pretty good, then work on adding lyrics, and usually by the time you've played it enough to get the two down together, then that song is good to go.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by UnderDogbassist

do you think that's what ppl like geddy lee, tom araya, sting, les claypool, lemmy do? make the bass part second nature? i'm kind of curious if that's what they do or they can jjust pull that out of their minds lol.

Absolutely. The better the player you are, the less concentration and focus it requires to play a good bass line, the more you are able to focus some mental energy on vocals. It's just that simple.

For example, let's take something as simple and easy for the intermediate player as a walking blues bassline. Once you reach a point where your fingers are pretty much on autopilot, you should be able to hum a tune while walking through a 12-bar blues progression.

The more demanding the bassline, the more experience you need as a player to sing through them.

Start simple. "White Wedding." Stuff that hammers the root to death. As you evolve, so will your ability to sing and play.

[mambo4]

pasted form an earlier thread:
I think the primary obstacle to playign bass while singing is rhythmic:
You have to be able to execute 2 rhythms at once, the the bass part and the vocal line.

My favorite trick to deal with it is to put the bass down, and pratcice clapping the rhythm of the bass part while singing the vocal part.
Do it slowly and accurately at first.
Notice the spots where the vocal line matches up with the bass line
Pay special attention the spots where the vocals fall 'in between' the bass notes.

I have found that once I can clap the bass rhythm accurately while singing, It's pretty easy to grab the bass and play for real.

Actually singing well is another story

[StyleOverShow]

Originally Posted by mambo4

pasted form an earlier thread:
I think the primary obstacle to playing bass while singing is rhythmic:....

I have found that once I can clap the bass rhythm accurately while singing, It's pretty easy to grab the bass and play for real.

Actually singing well is another story

Know a bass teacher who has students clap out bass lines and it works pretty well.

As you point out, singing is a whole nother ball game.

My approach is rote. I practice singing my part over and over while playing the bass part. "For the love of Money" was difficult at first, but after a short while I put my hands on autopilot and listened to the other chorus singers and concentrated on blending in.

It is another mindset and I'm sure my eyes roll back in my head when I'm really in the singing and playing zone.

[Nomad5]

It's funny you mention this. Here's my experience:

As a guitar player, I play a LOT of fingerstyle and for years have had no issues playing fairly complicated fingerstyle and nailing the vocals without my "head" getting in the way at all. Think "After the Rain - Bruce Cockburn / Saulsbury Hill - Gabriel etc."

When I play bass (which by the way is where I started 30 years ago), I might as well be mute sometimes. On particularly difficult songs, I find playing with a pick to be helpful.

Cheers & as has been said already "practice,practice....practice"