Learning to play drums... Well.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Martin Bormann

That's obvious. The dunce at the shop will be like "don't bother with the theory garbage" but the professional (and I don't mean some rock and roll drummer dolt) will probably recommend rudimentary studies.

Well that might be true too, they don't employ the brightest people in drum shops generally and they only care about making sales. On the other hand some drum shops do have professional staff that would give thoughtful advice.

[McThumpin]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Actually no, if you don't know the rudiment you can't play it. What you are saying is that you can play your approximation of it based on guessing. Which in my mind is just playing poorly. As far as I can tell the Op asked how to play drums well.

I don't know how telling them to take the easy road and be lazy is helping them at all.

The OP wanted advice from folks who play the drums well. You yourself said you were just an "ok drummer." This elitist view of yours, coming from a self-described "ok drummer," is pretty unwarranted. So maybe you need to cut down on the bullying, and go practice your precious rudiments.

Thing is, people go about things differently, and what may seem lazy and unprofessional to you, is actually inspiring and more fulfilling to others. And that should be respected. That's all I got to say about that.

Catch you cats on the flip-flop. I got music that needs playing.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by McThumpin

The OP wanted advice from folks who play the drums well. You yourself said you were just an "ok drummer." This elitist view of yours, coming from a self-described "ok drummer," is pretty unwarranted. So maybe you need to cut down on the bullying, and go practice your precious rudiments.

Thing is, people go about things differently, and what may seem lazy and unprofessional to you, is actually inspiring and more fulfilling to others. And that should be respected. That's all I got to say about that.

Catch you cats on the flip-flop. I got music that needs playing.

I don't know where someone who is too lazy to learn to play properly is really in much of a position to make a judgement on what me saying I am an ok drummer really means.

If you feel bullied it's only because you want to justify this bad advice you seem so intent on giving people. Having differing modus operandi is one thing. Telling people that it's good to be lazy and do things that might be technically bad and physically damaging is something else. No, I don't respect bad advice given to people who might be worse off for following it at all. Sorry.

[fourstringdrums]

Originally Posted by McThumpin

Boring. screw all that. I've been playing drums almost as long as bass. You don't need to know a bunch of rudiments and grips to become a good drummer. Dave Grohl certainly doesn't. Just get yourself a kit, and start banging away. Get a feel for it. Then maybe rent some beginner's dvds (books won't help a beginner). It's all about putting in the time, creating muscle memory and feeling comfortable.

As far as V drums - you might as well program, then.

Wow, aren't we positive?

Learning rudiments are a must. Even if you just learn singles, doubles, paradiddles, flams, and a basic buzz/press roll you'll have 90% of the tools that you'd need to be a happy and potentially successful drummer.

Learn how to read drum music (which if you can read bass already will be a piece of cake).

Concentrate more on groove, timing, and having a solid pocket and not so much on being flashy.

It takes everyone a different amount of time to get to a particular level on the drums, and really the learning never stops.

The disadvantages of v-drums vs. acoustic is that it's harder to apply dynamics unless you have a really expensive e-kit that can translate them. Also the feel of the drums aren't the same as an acoustic set again unless you get an expensive kit. The whole "You might as well just program" thing is bull because you're still physically playing the instrument.

Check out www.vicfirth.com for a lot of drum instruction videos and rudiment guide/training sections.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums

Wow, aren't we positive?

Learning rudiments are a must. Even if you just learn singles, doubles, paradiddles, flams, and a basic buzz/press roll you'll have 90% of the tools that you'd need to be a happy and potentially successful drummer.

Learn how to read drum music (which if you can read bass already will be a piece of cake).

Concentrate more on groove, timing, and having a solid pocket and not so much on being flashy.

It takes everyone a different amount of time to get to a particular level on the drums, and really the learning never stops.

The disadvantages of v-drums vs. acoustic is that it's harder to apply dynamics unless you have a really expensive e-kit that can translate them. Also the feel of the drums aren't the same as an acoustic set again unless you get an expensive kit. The whole "You might as well just program" thing is bull because you're still physically playing the instrument.

Check out www.vicfirth.com for a lot of drum instruction videos and rudiment guide/training sections.

You are right about the V-drums being better as you get the more expensive models. I think with the feel aspect it depends on whether you are talking about acoustic overtones and resonance or whether you are talking about the player's dynamics and sense of time. The sense of time will be there as long as the triggering is responsive enough to interpret the drummer's playing and the dynamics are once again dependent on the model you are using. I guess acoustic properties are down to the quality of the samples.

[Martin Bormann]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

You are right about the V-drums being better as you get the more expensive models. I think with the feel aspect it depends on whether you are talking about acoustic overtones and resonance or whether you are talking about the player's dynamics and sense of time. The sense of time will be there as long as the triggering is responsive enough to interpret the drummer's playing and the dynamics are once again dependent on the model you are using. I guess acoustic properties are down to the quality of the samples.

I think what he meant by feel was the response and bounce of the sticks to the drums.

Really, you can put the cash up to get a V-drum set that responds and sounds like a real acoustic set, but with a V-drum set, you can move away from the boundaries of what an acoustic set can do.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Martin Bormann

I think what he meant by feel was the response and bounce of the sticks to the drums.

Really, you can put the cash up to get a V-drum set that responds and sounds like a real acoustic set, but with a V-drum set, you can move away from the boundaries of what an acoustic set can do.

I agree, you can diversify a lot on what you do with V-drums. I personally like to play with drummers that can use both if possible. I think from a player's perspective playing actual drums will be a completely different experience, especially from the point of view of metals and rim shot techniques, which is where I think the V-Drums probably fall down, even though they try to approximate this stuff and do ok to an extent.

I think in recording though, to a large extent you would be hard pressed to tell what is acoustic and what is triggered a lot of the time. In fact Neil Kernon has been getting a lot of the double kick players to play V-drums for their kick while they play the rest of an acoustic set because sonically it creates less spill and "sonic wash" in the overheads than acoustic kicks when they are playing fast double kick parts.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Closed until the local mods can weigh in. I'm pretty sure replies like several found in this thread are not what Paul had in mind when forum rule #1 ("Address all forum members with the utmost respect at all times") was put in place.