learning to play the piano

[dalconthenovice]

somebody once told me that if you are bassist and you want to be a better musician by learning to play any other instrument, the instrument that comes recommended is the piano/keyboard

does anyone agree with this? and if so how does it make you a better bassist?

and does anyone have any books/websites/lessons for someone learning the piano?

[J-B'ass]

Every instrument has something different to offer. If you take up drums you'll probably focus more on making rhythms feel lyrical and groovy using different textures instead of different notes. Something like a sax might get you thinking about being more melodic, even when accompanying, because they can only play one note at a time.
The main reason to learn piano is that it helps with music theory. It's great to be able to see all the notes in front of you and see their relationships in an easy and intuitive visual way. It's also great for chords, so you can test and demo different theoretical concepts with ease. It will also teach you how the bass note can affect the rest of the chord.

[Basshoofd]

A basic understanding of piano can make music theory a bit easier. Plus it's a very fun instrument to play.

[ridgeback]

piano is great to learn and fun to play.takes practice like anything else and imo will help you become a better bass player if only to get you to think outside the box,melody and harmony come easier and theory is imo easier to understand on piano because the notes are flat out in front of you..learning another instrument is always going to add to your skills,piano will not exactly make you a better bass player but it will help you understand music and what you listen to in a different way.

[somegeezer]

Like has been said, very good for learning theory. So not directly better for bass, but for music in general. I think a great instrument to learn to make your bass playing more melodic, would have to be guitar. More rhythmic... Drum kit. They both helped me get each side of the bass. But I never have been too good at that there guitar. =P

[MalcolmAmos]

Ditto everything that has been said. Will add this. I play chord piano. Look it up. And play from lead sheet - yep what I do with the left hand is left up to me, I read the chord name and then decide how best to play that chord, much like we do with the bass.

Here are some things to get you started.

A teacher is almost a must. Need to know how to get your hands moving together. Now you do not have to take lessons forever, however, I do recommend a teacher right at first. If a teacher is not in the cards then........
Alfred's # 1 book is a must. http://www.amazon.com/Alfreds-Group-.../dp/0739053019
How to Play from a Fake Book by Michael Esterowitz http://www.amazon.com/Play-Fake-Book.../dp/0943748194
How to play the piano despite years of lessons by Ward Cannel and Fred Marx. http://books.google.com/books?id=Clb...page&q&f=false
Yoke Wong's videos are very helpful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh_44...eature=channel.
Pete Sears was my first how to video -great stuff. http://www.5min.com/Category/Music/P...ideo-not-found
I did not buy this, however, you may find it just what you are looking for. http://www.chordpiano.com/

Have fun.

[NineSpine]

I'll be the odd man out, just for fun!

The layout of the keys lends itself towards locking you into very specific musical patterns, and as a result, those patterns are extremely common in music, so it can actually become a physical challenge to be more inventive. This is because the amount of physical memory required to play a piano, due to the often drastically different fingerings required to play the same thing in different keys, is ridiculous. I'd find all of these things forgivable if piano was a monophonic instrument, but that's not how it is.

In conclusion, I really personally hate piano. I understand why people like it and why they hold the opinion that it's good for learning theory, but I disagree, if only because I feel you can get so much more out of another instrument if you put the same amount of time and effort into it.

[somegeezer]

Originally Posted by NineSpine

I'll be the odd man out, just for fun!

The layout of the keys lends itself towards locking you into very specific musical patterns, and as a result, those patterns are extremely common in music, so it can actually become a physical challenge to be more inventive. This is because the amount of physical memory required to play a piano, due to the often drastically different fingerings required to play the same thing in different keys, is ridiculous. I'd find all of these things forgivable if piano was a monophonic instrument, but that's not how it is.

In conclusion, I really personally hate piano. I understand why people like it and why they hold the opinion that it's good for learning theory, but I disagree, if only because I feel you can get so much more out of another instrument if you put the same amount of time and effort into it.

The same patterns exist on all instruments. Just in a different form. Every string on a regular tuned bass is only a perfect 4th above, creating the same exact pattern for any scale. You want to change that A minor to a C# minor? Just move your hand slightly and play the exact same pattern. Considering that nobody actually knows how much information the human brain can hold, what makes you think that knowing your scales is a "ridiculous" amount of knowledge to store?

[progrmr]

I just started learning piano about a month ago and came back to the bass. So far, the most benefit I see is that you get lots of practice reading the bass clef, and you get a feel for seperation of the melody and harmony.

I am enjoying piano a lot - and for chord theory it's great. My teacher is focusing a lot on chord inversions which is a lot easier to "see" on the piano keys than on the fretboard.

[bassandbeyond]

Guitar would probably be easier for a bassist to learn, if you're looking to add a chordal instrument to your arsenal. Having said that, I LOVE the piano and I don't think any other instrument can compete with it in terms of being able to manifest the "whole picture" musically on one instrument.

[groooooove]

all musicians sound have basic keyboard abilities.

you're not supposed to be performing mozart pieces on piano or anything, but studying basic harmonization of simple melodies.. (most college music major programs require keyboard harmony for however many semesters, wich is just that..)

a skill like that is the differnce between being a hobbyist and a musician..

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by NineSpine

I'll be the odd man out, just for fun!

The layout of the keys lends itself towards locking you into very specific musical patterns, and as a result, those patterns are extremely common in music, so it can actually become a physical challenge to be more inventive. This is because the amount of physical memory required to play a piano, due to the often drastically different fingerings required to play the same thing in different keys, is ridiculous. I'd find all of these things forgivable if piano was a monophonic instrument, but that's not how it is.

In conclusion, I really personally hate piano. I understand why people like it and why they hold the opinion that it's good for learning theory, but I disagree, if only because I feel you can get so much more out of another instrument if you put the same amount of time and effort into it.

spoken like someone who never figured out how to play one. i am not anywhere near a good keyboard player, but i can tell you in no uncertain terms that this entire post is wrong. it's not even open to opinion...it's just wrong.

the truth is that there are benefits to playing ANY instrument besides your main instrument. more knowledge is always better than less knowledge. but out of all the instruments you can play besides your main instrument, keyboard is king. it's a graphical representation of everything you want to know about how music works. even if you never get good at it, you can always use it for something if you learn how it works. a lot of folks use it for writing and arranging because you can see as well as hear what's going on.

there simply is no debate about it...learning the keyboard is by far the best you can choose as a secondary instrument.

[Classickbass]

I began learning piano in March. And as J'Bass said it is so much easier to understand theory when it is laid out in front of you in linear fashion. You can then take that and apply it to bass, guitar, whatever instrument you like. Honestly, the more I play piano the less I play the electric bass.

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

somebody once told me that if you are bassist and you want to be a better musician by learning to play any other instrument, the instrument that comes recommended is the piano/keyboard

does anyone agree with this? and if so how does it make you a better bassist?

I've played piano for years (started in 1989). Personally, I don't think that piano necessarily makes you a better bass player anymore than learning the guitar would. Perhaps, my opinion is unfairly biased because I learned piano before learning bass. Maybe I'm not seeing the benefit from the persepctive of a bassist trying to learn keys. Learning a composition instrument will make you a better bassist; however, I don't think that piano specifically will make you a better bassist than another composition instrument will. So, I think learning the guitar is just as helpful and valuable as the piano...with one possible exception...Piano is a percussion instrument (i.e. you strike the keys to make a sound) and that can be helpful for you to develop a good sense of rhythm and timing since you will FEEL the rhythm in your fingers and hands.

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by NineSpine

I'll be the odd man out, just for fun!

The layout of the keys lends itself towards locking you into very specific musical patterns, and as a result, those patterns are extremely common in music, so it can actually become a physical challenge to be more inventive. This is because the amount of physical memory required to play a piano, due to the often drastically different fingerings required to play the same thing in different keys, is ridiculous. I'd find all of these things forgivable if piano was a monophonic instrument, but that's not how it is.

In conclusion, I really personally hate piano. I understand why people like it and why they hold the opinion that it's good for learning theory, but I disagree, if only because I feel you can get so much more out of another instrument if you put the same amount of time and effort into it.

What happened to you?
Lack of a piano teacher?
Lack of good lessons?
Lack of natural musical talent?
Sounds like you simply never learned to play the piano and gave up after realizing that it wasn't going to be as simple as you had expected.
Your appraisal of the piano is wrong. Not "wrong" in that I disagree with it--"wrong" as in FACTUALLY wrong. It's simply not true.

[NineSpine]

I design video games. I don't want to get into the minutia of my job, but at the end of the day what I do is fundamentally about engineering systems for people to interact with. You may not think much of that, but I spend at minimum forty hours every week focusing on how human beings interact with things and designing systems based around that. I'm not an idiot or ignorant when it comes to this so I really do not appreciate being treated as though I am. I've designed games which have sold millions of copies, so apparently someone thinks I'm good at designing interfaces (which is what instruments, especially keyboards, are). I'm willing to bet that I've read more books on general design than you've ever heard of. I don't say this because I think I'm so special, but because I am being talked to like a child.

I had to play the piano for years in music school and I had to do so well enough to pass the classes, which was not amazing but also not a trivial level of ability.

If you want to tell me that the modern standard keyboard is not designed around C Major and it's modes, then I don't know what to tell you. That's simply how it is.

Everything has flaws. Every design, from something as simple as a door, has flaws. For example, most doors open one way. That's a design flaw. It's more intuitive in one direction than the either. I could even point out numerous flaws in the keyboard I am typing on right now. There are significantly better layouts that are possible, where the hands will naturally alternate more often based on the most common sequences of letters in the English language. We use this one because it achieved standardization first, but it is actually not a great key layout.

This is very similar to the piano, or even western notation as a whole. The whole system is based around C Major and it's modes, with everything else being treated as abnormal. This is especially true once you leave the modes of the C major scale and move on to more alternative scales. They become increasingly unwieldy and awkward the farther they get from the classic scales. This is a problem that you may notice simply doesn't exist on many instruments, most notably for this discussion, bass.

All 12 notes are an equal distance, relatively, from the one before and the one after it. Having certain notes represented by smaller black keys, as opposed to larger white ones, is FUNDAMENTALLY unintuitive, because it treats things which are identical in relevance as totally different.

If I designed a typing keyboard where the less popular notes were on smaller keys, it would be derided as quite horribly designed, because a single size is significantly more intuitive to the use of your fingers.

Schoenberg had the same opinions as I do about the emphasis of western notation on C Major, so if you want to tell me that he was a moron who was totally wrong and didn't know what he was talking about, and never learned how to play music, well you are entitled to your own opinion, even though you clearly don't think I am.

I recommend the books The Design of Everyday Things, The Art of Human-Computer Interface Design, The Humane Interface, and Universal Principles of Design if you want to learn about the subject of how humans interact with things.

[Rick Nicak]

Well NineSpine, we could endlessly debate this post, but I will refrain. It would be meaningless anyway in that we are using an incomplete system, in the sense of Godel's Incompleteness, which you have pointed out is a universal property. I do understand that the history of clavier's is littered with how to tune it, but the 12 tone ET won out, kind of like. Call it a evolutionary or arbitrary choice, truly does not matter.
Piano will make you a better musician just as weight training will help a swimmer. It stretches different musical muscles, opens you up to a different point of view, and really does help with music theory (of the equal tempered sort).

[NineSpine]

Well, I never said learning piano will make you a worse musician or have no value. I said I find piano unintuitive and that I think that time will be better spent on a different instrument as far as what you will walk away with for the investment.

Learning another instrument is never a BAD thing.

[Beginner Bass]

The idea is that it is, for one, an even-tempered instrument, and does not succumb to intonation issues like a standard fretted instrument. It also alows an easy way to actually see music theory. I also like to use it to test how different parts interact.

[JimmyM]

Too much thinking getting in the way of doing, if you ask me.