Learning to read F Clef

[repoman]

After nearly 2 years of "noddling" and tab reading and general faking I have decided I had better cut the crap and learn how to actual read charts written in F clef.
I have a background in G clef from my many years of playing trumpet, so reading and understanding the language isn't a concern... it is just figuring out where an E or an A is written on the staff. I find myself looking at the first space and "seeing" an F when it is actually an A...or the first ledger line below the staff as a C when of course that is an E, etc, etc.
I'm guessing there is no "trick" in relearning how to read from G clef to F clef, it must be just memorizing through rote. Yes?
Study Bass.com has a great flashcard thingy that I use (made it all the way from drummer -that cracked me up- to first level master in no time) but it seems so tedious.
I was speculating that some of you G clef readers had some ideas or tips that would help me move along a little bit faster (at 54 I'm not getting any younger )

[repoman]

I need to add that I have searched the forum and have found many sites that teach F clef reading... I'm just looking for first hand experiences in learning how to convert G to F....

[southpaw76]

middle C is one ledger line above the F clef and one ledger line below the G clef. Remembering that should help you transpose a little easier. Btw middle C is the first C on the G string (5th fret).

HTH,
sp

[Clef_de_fa]

I don't think their is a trick to learn to read in any of the three key ( G, C and F ).

Buy classical music book like the 6 suite for Cello by Bach. There you have all three if I remember correcly, or read a classical piano book. read one page per day. At one point it won't matter anymore if it is written in treble of bass or tenor ...

[repoman]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

I don't think their is a trick to learn to read in any of the three key ( G, C and F ).

Buy classical music book like the 6 suite for Cello by Bach. There you have all three if I remember correcly, or read a classical piano book. read one page per day. At one point it won't matter anymore if it is written in treble of bass or tenor ...

aaah, that is where I am trying to get... I do have some piano music laying around here somewhere, never thought of using that, going to have to dig it out.

[repoman]

Originally Posted by southpaw76

middle C is one ledger line above the F clef and one ledger line below the G clef. Remembering that should help you transpose a little easier. Btw middle C is the first C on the G string (5th fret).

HTH,
sp

thanks, it does help....

[MonetBass]

Transpose everything up a fifth and you have the bass clef equivalent. At least that's how my brain works.

[repoman]

Originally Posted by MonetBass

Transpose everything up a fifth and you have the bass clef equivalent. At least that's how my brain works.

Transposing up a fifth? ....
I don't see that happening any time soon ....

[MalcolmAmos]

Memory pegs are different.
All Cows Eat Grass for spaces.
Good boys do fine always for lines.

Big breakthrough for me was recognizing the three octaves. Which C are you reading and where is that C on your fretboard, i.e. lower ledger, middle staff or upper ledger.

Or if you like - first position, second octave, third or 1st string notes.

[MonetBass]

Originally Posted by repoman

Transposing up a fifth? ....
I don't see that happening any time soon ....

Example: In F clef, you see what looks like a C in bass clef (one line above the staff). In F clef, that is actually a G (three lines above the staff), or the octave above the open G string. So the G is a fifth above the C, as it reads. Sorry if I muddied the waters too much.

[southpaw76]

Also, assuming you are using a 4 string with 24 frets (2 octave range):
In grand staff (G clef stacked above the F clef), which is how piano music is usually laid out. Write out the range of your bass from open E(one ledger line below the F clef) to your high G (24th fret G string=the space on top of the last line on your G clef).

Doing that helped me learn to transpose a little easier by being able to visualize where it would be on the fingerboard.

sp

[repoman]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Memory pegs are different.
All Cows Eat Grass for spaces.
Good boys do fine always for lines.

Big breakthrough for me was recognizing the three octaves. Which C are you reading and where is that C on your fretboard, i.e. lower ledger, middle staff or upper ledger.

Or if you like - first position, second octave, third or 1st string notes.

...this is an interesting angle (so to speak).. I find myself stumbling around the first and second position without giving much thought to it. This might give me something to focus on ....

[repoman]

Originally Posted by southpaw76

Also, assuming you are using a 4 string with 24 frets (2 octave range):
In grand staff (G clef stacked above the F clef), which is how piano music is usually laid out. Write out the range of your bass from open E(one ledger line below the F clef) to your high G (24th fret G string=the space on top of the last line on your G clef).

Doing that helped me learn to transpose a little easier by being able to visualize where it would be on the fingerboard.

sp

yep, 4 string, 24 fret, but doesn't that allow for (almost)3 octaves going down the G string to the last fret - Eb ?

Anyway...I'm looking right now for some blank grand staffs to mess around with... I think Study Bass has something to print out ....

[southpaw76]

Originally Posted by repoman

yep, 4 string, 24 fret, but doesn't that allow for (almost)3 octaves going down the G string to the last fret - Eb ?

Anyway...I'm looking right now for some blank grand staffs to mess around with... I think Study Bass has something to print out ....

I am not sure I understand correctly, are you tuned to Eb as opposed to E?

Basically what I am trying to illustrate is the range of the bass voice laid on a grand staff. Now if you want to take everything that bleeds over in the G clef and transpose it to the F clef, you should be able to do this now so long as you indicate the 8va symbol. I hope that makes sense, I am still a bit groggy .

sp

[repoman]

Originally Posted by southpaw76

I am not sure I understand correctly, are you tuned to Eb as opposed to E?

Basically what I am trying to illustrate is the range of the bass voice laid on a grand staff. Now if you want to take everything that bleeds over in the G clef and transpose it to the F clef, you should be able to do this now so long as you indicate the 8va symbol. I hope that makes sense, I am still a bit groggy .

sp

... long night?

Thank you for all the reply's , every bit of information helps.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by MonetBass

Example: In F clef, you see what looks like a C in bass clef (one line above the staff). In F clef, that is actually a G (three lines above the staff), or the octave above the open G string. So the G is a fifth above the C, as it reads. Sorry if I muddied the waters too much.

Um, bass clef is F clef.

[southpaw76]

Originally Posted by Febs

Um, bass clef is F clef.

Yep that is correct .

sp

[kreider204]

I had a similar experience. I started on saxophone for several years before learning bass. In my case, I learned to play bass from method books that contained NO tab, so I started learning the F clef right away by associating the note on the page with the fingering on the bass, not with the name of the note. So, I would see the dot, think "That's this fret on this string," and then think "And that fret on that string is an F#, so that note is an F#." In other words, I associate the notation with the instrument, and only then with the note it represents. I can still read both G and F clef just fine - and in my head, I'm always imagining fingerings on sax or bass respectively.

[Marty Forrer]

I dont think there is a magic bullet, it's just a hard, repetitive, take it slow process. At least you already know the hardest part, the rhythms and accents etc.

[MonetBass]

Originally Posted by Febs

Um, bass clef is F clef.

D'oh! Here I'm thinking some ambitious soul is trying to learn alto clef. Please ignore all of my posts.