Learning by Tab or Classically

[Nappa]

Me and my friend had an argument about this in class earlier today, my point being it is better to learn classically (notes,scales,metrnome stuff, by ear) and his being learning by tab and only tab (with teacher showing him the notes and saying which fret # they are)

Note he is really good at keeping the rythem after hearing the song and learning the tab.

He is being taught by his mother's boyfriend who is guitarist and bassist. (meaning he plays both not saying that he thinks he can play bass because he plays guitar)

I am being taught by a blues-influenced Jazz musician who grew up playing many instrument through school (trumpet(2yrs)tuba(1yrs)violin(1 1/2 yrs) and finally bass for 10+ yrs(bass at home not a school thing, while the others were in the school's band and jazz classes))

So, What do you think i should say if this gets brought up again?

Edit: He is a bassist if you didn't figure it out.

[lemur821]

I think you should say that if you learn all the stuff you mentioned then you'll be able to cope with anything, but if you just learn songs from TAB then you'll be out of your depth when you find yourself without it: i.e. in most musical situations.

[DocBop]

TAB BAD!!!

He might pick up a song quicker but will know little about how or why it works. Won't know how to analyse the bass line so he can learn from it to make his own lines later. Which means when time to come up with his own lines he'll just try to hack together pieces of things he's played before and hope it works. Also there is a world of music out there lessons, transcriptions, songs, and so on that is only in standard notation. Also as you work with better players you will know the language of music so you can communicate with them. All plus' to getting a strong music foundation in the beginning. If you friend decided to get serious about music later he will have to learn these things then.

Now there is one use for TAB and that for showing a good fingering for a passage. It can be done in standard notation, but can make for a messy page of ink. For showing a suggested fingering TAB is good.

That's my two cents.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by Nappa

So, What do you think i should say if this gets brought up again?

say nothing... he's a human being, therefore he won't learn anything by losing an argument with you

and you have better things to do than attempt to win tab vs notation arguments... be honest with yourself and ask if you're genuinely trying to help your friend or whether you're just trying to prove yourself correct..

either way it's a waste of your time... let your friend learn by his mistakes in his own time, and concentrate on learning from your own

[T-Bird]

Hi, Nappa

Originally Posted by DocBop

TAB BAD!!!

He might pick up a song quicker but will know little about how or why it works. Won't know how to analyse the bass line so he can learn from it to make his own lines later. Which means when time to come up with his own lines he'll just try to hack together pieces of things he's played before and hope it works. Also there is a world of music out there lessons, transcriptions, songs, and so on that is only in standard notation. Also as you work with better players you will know the language of music so you can communicate with them. All plus' to getting a strong music foundation in the beginning. If you friend decided to get serious about music later he will have to learn these things then.

Now there is one use for TAB and that for showing a good fingering for a passage. It can be done in standard notation, but can make for a messy page of ink. For showing a suggested fingering TAB is good.

That's my two cents.

+100

Tabs suck if one doesn't know a thing about theory, it's a real limit to Your hobby.
People who use only tabs usually suck badly when it comes to timing. Your friend is an exeption.

For You the ability to read and adapt music, gives an opportunity to turn Your hobby into a profession if required.

I'm rather bad when it comes to reading music as I learned by tabs and by ear, MISTAKE. Whatever they say, You won't learn it when You're older. It'll limit Your creativity and probably sound "average".

IMHO consider Yourself lucky with the path You've chosen, I hate jazz with a passion, but those guys really know their theory and can play almost any type of music required.

Just my 0.02€
Sam

[Otso]

If everyone knew how to read standard notation, and knew the basic theory stuff, communicating with other musicians would be so easy!

[SteveC]

TAB isn't learning. All you know is where to put your finger - and there is usually more than one option for that.

If you are going to be a musician, be able to read and communicate with others, you need to know standard notation. Period.

It isn't that hard. If you are serious about playing, you'll take the time to do it. If you are taking lessons, any teacher worth paying will use standard notation. I tell my students first thing - you will learn standard notation. If you have a problem with this, you need to find another teacher.

[Jim Carr]

Tab, er, tablature has been around for centuries for organ, lute, viol, harpsichord, etc. There are hundreds of different kinds. Some kinds have all manner of rhythmic information, fingerings, etc. In fact, even lowly electric bass tab does automatically give you string and position info, which notation only does if you add to it (which is OFTEN done, I admit).

Tabulature is a useful tool. Ok, I read notation very well, having spent my life studying and teaching music. I read and write notation everyday. I am not saying use tab instead of notation. I AM saying that playing is more important than either. Get playing, enjoying, practicing and developing your ears, rhythm, technique.

Play first, ask questions later. In that spirit....

Q: Must I learn to read and write music notation fluently in different clefs. A: Yes!

Q: Is tablature any good? A: Yes!

Q: Do I have time to practice everyday?
A: Yes!

[T-Bird]

Hi.

One thing I totally forgot:

Bein' able to read notation is a good and important thing.
Bein' able to write notation accurately opens the possibility to any musician to play Your music, with or without You.

I can't, and that bugs me, even though with the "therapy" band I'm playing at the moment, it isn't required.

Sam

[Bass Mule]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

Tab, er, tablature has been around for centuries for organ, lute, viol, harpsichord, etc. There are hundreds of different kinds. Some kinds have all manner of rhythmic information, fingerings, etc. In fact, even lowly electric bass tab does automatically give you string and position info, which notation only does if you add to it (which is OFTEN done, I admit).

Tabulature is a useful tool. Ok, I read notation very well, having spent my life studying and teaching music. I read and write notation everyday. I am not saying use tab instead of notation. I AM saying that playing is more important than either. Get playing, enjoying, practicing and developing your ears, rhythm, technique.

Play first, ask questions later. In that spirit....

Q: Must I learn to read and write music notation fluently in different clefs. A: Yes!

Q: Is tablature any good? A: Yes!

Q: Do I have time to practice everyday?
A: Yes!

+100
I agree 100% with everything you said. I can read standard notation (or used to be able to), and I use tab quite frequently. Both have their merits.
I've always believed that music is a language. When we're toddlers, we learn to speak by imitating what we see/hear. I think of that as the same way as tab. Should children be forced to read and write before they can communicate with others? No, but it can/will help them when they get older.
Reminds me of a good friend of mine I used to work with. He dropped out of high school (and I don't think he ever got his GED), and I was in college. (Actually, I'm back in school again, after a 12 year hiatus.) We used to have the best conversations, even though he never learned the same rules of grammar. We'd have to leave notes for each other sometimes, and reading his notes were a chore sometimes, but, since most of communicating was verbally, it didn't matter.

[Nappa]

Thanks Everyone!

[jaebee]

a really good compromise i found when working with bach's prelude was to go through, read it, write the notes beneath the staff (to make it faster to read later), and then play by knowing where the notes on the bass are and refrencing the staff to see what octave they are at.

this isnt traditional reading, but it is certainly much better than tab as it forces you to know what notes are where, instead of just your fingers

[Cristo]

This sort of question comes up all the time. A lot of guys say tab is bad evil , useless, worthless, counterproductive, etc.

I say that clearly it does not convey all of the information that standard notation does, clearly it is much easier for someone to use after minimal instruction, and clearly it is not useless since it IS used by thousands of people to play the instrument.

Both systems have merits. If you don't know standard notation, and you have a recording of music that you want to play, tab is useful.

If you want to be a professional session or jazz musician that needs to play what's put in front of them, obviously tab ain't going to cut it.

I'd wager that there are "professional" bass players out there, i.e., people who make their living playing bass (probably in a band) who do not read standard notation.

What do you know, some guy has the audacity to think he can play the bass and make $$$ at it, all without reading notes off a page!

Reading std notation is a great skill to have that can open up all sorts of opportunities to you, but not doing it does not mean ALL opportunities are off limits. Some will definitely be, though.

[Scot]

What DocBoc said.

Standard music notation all the way but if I'm studying a player's line/solo (e.g. checking out a transcription in Bass Player mag, etc.) I'm sometimes happy to see the tab complimenting the notation (in lei of position markings) as a study aid to help delve in to a players style/approach. The only issue I have with that is wondering if the tab I'm looking at is the transcriber's interpretation of where the line was originally played or where the line was actually played.

I think there's a point where sightreading, theory, eartraining, and fingerboard knowledge all come together and compliment one another. You get to a point with sightreading where you can look at a piece of music and hear it and visualize where to play it on the neck and which fingers to use without having a bass in your hands. Tab seems to be a shortcut used by many so I think it will always have that "painting by numbers" stigma associated with it.

Oh yeah, about the argument w/your friend...tell him you don't have time to argue because you have to head out to play a sightreading gig and that you really wanted to sub the gig out to him but the charts aren't in tablature.

[Rumblestiltzkin]

Well, tab CAN and often DOES show note durations as well as measure / section / coda / intro / outro / ect. Of course, most of the tabs you will find at bassmasta.net or similar are not professionally made. I just wanted to make the counter-argument that tab doesn't have note durations. In fact, in can show you exactly how to play a song on a specific instrument.

Which brings me to my second, and main, point; tab is limited in the fact that it can only show you how to play on a specific instrument. Std. notation, on the other hand, can be applied to ANY instrument capable of playing in the bass range. Piano, ect, ect.

To me that is the real difference. On a more minor note (no pun intended), tabs discourage the learning of basic theory; note names, the difference between eight note and 16th, ect., are commonly disregarded.

My 2c

[FoT bassman]

I would say that one isn't solely better over the other. Standard notation is probably better in the long run, but tabs work too. The best thing, I think, is to use them in conjunction; use both tabs and standard notation and you'll be even better than those who use standard notation. I know a very little bit of standard notation (I can understand time signatures, note durations, and other small things like that) but I mainly use tabs and I get along just fine. Now I can't write my music out, though; hell I can't even write tabs all that well. I plan to take some music courses in college too so I'm gonna learn the theory and stuff.

Overall I think the best musicians were not only musicians, but composers; they knew the "ins" and "outs" of theory. Led Zeppelin's greatest influences were classical composers (Bach, Beethoven, etc.); Zeppelin songs weren't just played, they were composed. Alot of thought, heart, soul, and passion went into Led Zeppelin's songs. The greatest bands will combine all of the greatest aspects of music in general, using techniques from all genres (rap doesn't count; it isn't music) to improve and really branch out to make a variety of stuff. I love it when I here a song and I go, "Who is that?" and someone tells me it's Zeppelin; I'll have no clue that they did a certain song, and I am a die hard Zeppelin fan on the rise (that doesn't happen much anymore though). But my point is that all of their songs don't sound exactly alike.

But I digress; I'm rambling. I think it's best if standard notation and tabs are used in tandem for a most-improved sound.

[PrecisionBass]

I've trained myself, but then learned to read music for bass because I had to for my school's jazz band. This helped me with the technical aspect of the instrument (I also play clarinet, bass clarinet, guitar, bass guitar, trumpet, alto saxophone, and sitar, classicaly trained in all except guitar/bass guitar). Learning on my own made it fun and added a passion to the mix, but learning the technical aspect made me a better player technically and gave me a deeper understanding of the instrument.

After having both trainings, I'd say classical; it's less fun but much better for you down the road.

[meev991]

+2 for FoT bassman

Whenever i read tablature, it has the the standard notation, right there, above it, so I can get proper timing and such.

For the most part, Tablature is training wheels, and should be regarded as such, and that's perfectly fine.

I'll be taking music theory during my summer courses, so I will be able to reacquaint myself with all of my forgotten piano lessons

From my own personal experience, my brother (the guitarist in the family) has probably forgotten his standard notation as well. But whenever he's picking up one of my guitars and plucking out a tune, or helping me with his sharp ear, it's a testament to the truly gifted and intelligent musicians out there.

...i forgot what point i was trying to make

[Otso]

Originally Posted by FoT bassman

The best thing, I think, is to use them in conjunction; use both tabs and standard notation and you'll be even better than those who use standard notation. I know a very little bit of standard notation (I can understand time signatures, note durations, and other small things like that) but I mainly use tabs and I get along just fine.

The only use for tab is to show playing positions on the neck. And it's not really even very good for that because it doesn't say which finger to use for which note. Tab is absolutely useless for trying to show melodies or basslines etc.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Cristo

This sort of question comes up all the time. A lot of guys say tab is bad evil , useless, worthless, counterproductive, etc.

I say that clearly it does not convey all of the information that standard notation does, clearly it is much easier for someone to use after minimal instruction, and clearly it is not useless since it IS used by thousands of people to play the instrument.

Both systems have merits. If you don't know standard notation, and you have a recording of music that you want to play, tab is useful.

If you want to be a professional session or jazz musician that needs to play what's put in front of them, obviously tab ain't going to cut it.

I'd wager that there are "professional" bass players out there, i.e., people who make their living playing bass (probably in a band) who do not read standard notation.

What do you know, some guy has the audacity to think he can play the bass and make $$$ at it, all without reading notes off a page!

Reading std notation is a great skill to have that can open up all sorts of opportunities to you, but not doing it does not mean ALL opportunities are off limits. Some will definitely be, though.

Right, some opportunities will definitely be off-limits. And those opportunities are the highest paying gigs for people who aren't rock stars.