Leaving those dreaded pentatonics

[funkalicious101]

I just cannot leave them. In my band its sounds fine, even pretty good, but I would still like to learn more things and for the life of me i cant.

does anyone have any tips on this?

[perrytelephone]

First learn your major and minor scales and start building around them. Once your comfortable with those scales you can do lots more stuff.

[funkalicious101]

ive tried major and minor scales

but it just doesnt sounds right



well, i guess ill just try to keep bangin em out some more

[HolmeBass]

Try mixolydian, which is a major scale with a the 7th note flatted one half-step. Or you can try Dorian which is Mixolydian with the major third also flatted one half-step (to the minor third).

Alternately you could think of Dorian as the minor pentatonic with the major 2nd and major 6th added in- two extra notes to use. There is also many kinds of so-called "blues scales" which are also all pretty much minor pentatonic with some extra notes added (like the flat 5 and the major 7th- use 'em as passing tones, especially the major 7th).

(Note that "pentatonic" is almost always the minor pentatonic scale. The major pentatonic scale is big in country music- also the beginning of bass riff in "My Girl" by the Temptations goes right up the G major pentatonic scale. I'm guessing you've been using the minor pentatonic scale.)

But sometimes in funk you just need to use the minor pentatonic. Jimmy Page got *a lot* of mileage out of the minor pentatonic scale, there's probably some territory in there you still haven't covered.

Try Googling "musical scales" to get some patterns/tab to try out.

[funkalicious101]

when i experiment with solo bass and for solo bass intro in songs with my band i often use lydians and harmonic whole tones

but during our songs it just doesnt seem to work

[HolmeBass]

Ok, so you know your modes, etc., I will proceed assuming I don't need to explain them.

The way I see it is if minor pentatonic works, then either Dorian or Aelioan mode will also work- it only depends on whether the 6th is major or minor.

For more tonal variation, maybe try suspending some 2nds or 4ths for a more airy, open tonality? That could work here and there, sparingly, to change up the tonal pallete. Also never forget the power of pedalling a single deep note under a series of chord changes or a vamp. (Although that is more pop/rock than funk, usually, but Stevie Wonder does, well, wonders with pedal tones. In fact pianists are usually really good with that kind of thing; if you have a hip keyboardist to copy from take advantage of that.)

But really, if pentatonics are working--- don't fix it if it ain't broke! Funk is more about the groove and space and cooly interlocking minimal parts than it is note choice, IMHO.

[funkalicious101]

sorry if my name is misleading, but we are rock/moving towards progresive


and i dont really know many modes or really any theory on them

edit: heres a link for my bands myspace

[HolmeBass]

Oh, yeah your name was throwing me off a bit.

Well, I can't check out your MySpace page at work- so I'll have to answer generally.

I'd say in rock that there are really no rules. There are many great bass parts that, once analyzed, were "wrong" (or at least seemed that way to my understanding of theory; but I'm no jazzer, ya know?) but that were totally cool because they sounded different.

Also think of this: perhaps some of the things you've already tried actually *did work* but just sounded to different to you at the time- you've trained your own ears to "hear pentatonic", right? A lot of times I don't like the way some things sound while I am playing them because they are outside of my comfort zone, but when I listen to a recording or someone else playing it it actually sounds pretty good.

Trust your band mates' feedback on trying to expand the tonal scene. There might be something that at first feels unsettled to you but that you'll eventually get used to, that really adds something to your bands' sound. Record your rehearsals so you can listen without having to play at the same time.

[funkalicious101]

hmmm, thank you. ill some like that next time we practice

[steveb98]

There is more to using scales than just knowing the notes. You have to understand the current key of the song, the chord your playing over and how it is functioning. Then strong and weak beats. On weak beats you can play almost anything, but strong beat need to be chord tones or the proper extentions.

So start working on making music with Major scale, key word music. If it sounds bad figure out why. In mean time spice up your Pentatonics by add a chromatic note. For the Major Pentatonic add the b3/#9. For the Minor Pentatonic add the #4. Listen to the great Pentatonic players and you will hear those notes all the time.

[beggar98]

something cool an old teacher had me try was soloing without playing any roots. really opens your ears up to the rest of the chord and makes you think of it in a different way.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by funkalicious101

I just cannot leave them. In my band its sounds fine, even pretty good, but I would still like to learn more things and for the life of me i cant.

does anyone have any tips on this?

instead of watching your fingers find all those usual box shapes try approaching a line or solo by singing a line first to yourself and then try to make your fingers find it... you'll automatically break out of pentatonic wiggling

[Visirale]

Jazz and funk is my main thing but I play in a little rock band.

From my experience you can't just learn the scales and then use them to try and make something up. You need to be well-listened to music enough that you can just hear a fill that would fit. Once you have the idea, figure it out on your own with your instrument.

Your playing is going to be much too limited if you just try to confine it to a few modes. I'm as much of a theory junky as the next guy, but you gotta just hear the stuff.

[Red Wonder]

Originally Posted by funkalicious101

but we are moving towards progresive

and i dont really know many modes or really any theory on them


myspace

[funkalicious101]

what?

oh yeah, we took down a couple songs because of really bad recording quality.

they should be up again sometime in the next few weeks

[mellofello]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

The major pentatonic scale is big in country music- also the beginning of bass riff in "My Girl" by the Temptations goes right up the G major pentatonic scale.

the into bass riff is 5th, root, root. and the whole song mainly stays on the root and 5th. i'm pretty sure its in D. The guitar riff is what is major pentatonic.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by funkalicious101

I just cannot leave them. In my band its sounds fine, even pretty good, but I would still like to learn more things and for the life of me i cant.

does anyone have any tips on this?

Here's an easy way to spice up the pentatonic scale...

Take your minor pentatonic, for example in first position...

|---|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|---|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|---|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|---|-O-|---|---|-O-|

Add a major 2nd to the shape:

|-O-|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|---|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|---|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|---|-O-|---|-O-|-O-|

Then add a major sixth:

|-O-|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|-O-|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|---|-O-|---|-O-|---|
|---|-O-|---|-O-|-O-|

Use it in the same way as the minor pentatonic and add the extra notes as passing notes on weak beats and you're now playing a Dorian scale.

[PocketGroove82]

trying actually making a melody you hear in your head.
if you're just shreading the maj/min pentatonics then you probably aren't really hearing the notes you are playing. It sounds like you're just wiggling your fingers in save comfortable pattern, which is the farthest thing from making music.
You need to become more comfortable with different sounds.

[funkalicious101]

thanks guys ill try to use all of this