line construction?

[lateralus423]

Alright so i know a little bit of theory, and i'm getting fed up with my playing. It seems like all i do is the pentatonic scale for little fills/solos and all i do for bass lines is octaves, roots , 3rds, 5ths etc. I dont know what to do it just gets frustrating playing the same thing over and over again.

So i ask of you what would be some good suggestions on what to use?

[dlloyd]

Roots, thirds, fifths and octaves are the cornerstone of most bass lines, lots of great bass lines use them exclusively, but I know what you mean.

When I'm struggling to come up with a good bass line I find that building it up and jamming it out is usually the best way to get out of the rutt. I'll start by finding the groove, outlining the chords with roots and fifths, then filling it out with chord/scale tones, sometimes until it's way too busy, then stripping it back again, hopefully retaining the best bits.

Usually, the best indication of a bass line's quality is the expression on my drummers face.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

Usually, the best indication of a bass line's quality is the expression on my drummers face.

unfortunately, for most drummers that's a 'vacant stare not disimilar to a dog that's just been shown a card trick'

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by cowsgomoo

unfortunately, for most drummers that's a 'vacant stare not disimilar to a dog that's just been shown a card trick'

[mkettner]

Again as it has been stated in this tread those notes you reffered to are the cornerstone of bass playing. One thing I found helpful the this guitar scale calculator, it really has shown me different options and voicings you can use while playing the same stuff.

[Llama's Rage]

something i've been doing recently that seems to work well is just get in the right position, know pretty much where you need to go, and just play different notes. if you hit one that sounds bad, don't hit it again :P

try different basses, too - for some reason i can walk to pretty much anything on my fretless but its really difficult on my fretted for some reason. just the way it feels, i suppose.

[K2000]

A nice trick for composing lines... put down the bass for a few minutes and try inventing a bass line for yourself by singing it. Yes, singing it. You can do it like "scat" singers do (bow doo dah, bo-do bee dow... bah-dah dee dow). Just form sounds with your mouth, or if you prefer you can use the same sound over and over (dah dah dah, da-dah, da) Sing a melodic bass line that sounds cool to you, and try to forget about 'How am I gonna play THAT'...

Then pick up the bass, and play the line you came up with, using your bass.

I've read about this, and found that it works for me. One really good application... your guitar player (or whatever) gives you tape of his ideas for a new song... while you listen to it, try to come up with your bass lines by singing them.

You can also make up alternate bass lines to songs you hear on the radio... it's good practice. While you're driving, sing the basslines to whatever you're listening to, or sing what YOU would play... how would you do it differently?

[clockworkwar]

When i get a demo tape, i will write out a chord progression and then just jam to it, and see what i come up with. I also work out the bassline in my head usually before i pick up the bass, so i can make as mental note of certain parts and come up with the kind of groove i want.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Originally Posted by K2000

A nice trick for composing lines... put down the bass for a few minutes and try inventing a bass line for yourself by singing it. Yes, singing it. You can do it like "scat" singers do (bow doo dah, bo-do bee dow... bah-dah dee dow). Just form sounds with your mouth, or if you prefer you can use the same sound over and over (dah dah dah, da-dah, da) Sing a melodic bass line that sounds cool to you, and try to forget about 'How am I gonna play THAT'...

Then pick up the bass, and play the line you came up with, using your bass.

I've read about this, and found that it works for me. One really good application... your guitar player (or whatever) gives you tape of his ideas for a new song... while you listen to it, try to come up with your bass lines by singing them.

You can also make up alternate bass lines to songs you hear on the radio... it's good practice. While you're driving, sing the basslines to whatever you're listening to, or sing what YOU would play... how would you do it differently?

I do that a lot, I did it a lot before I even started playing bass.. that's probably one of my biggest motivations for picking it up and continuing to love it. But I'm still just a novice and I hope that through enough scales and knowledge about the fretboard I'll be able to translate what I hum into what I play.

A problem I think I have is that I think I make my basslines too busy and I feel like I should be playing a g***ar... Is this a real problem or is that how it's supposed to be done?

[Plato]

Originally Posted by lateralus423

Alright so i know a little bit of theory, and i'm getting fed up with my playing. It seems like all i do is the pentatonic scale for little fills/solos and all i do for bass lines is octaves, roots , 3rds, 5ths etc. I dont know what to do it just gets frustrating playing the same thing over and over again.

So i ask of you what would be some good suggestions on what to use?

I have been teaching a bass fundamentals class at a music camp for 30 years. Over the years I have developed a step-by-step approach to playing beginning walking lines. Once a player gets the basics, then it is easy to listen to the pros and figure out what they are doing so as to move on to the next level. In the meantime, I have helped them have survival skills to make lines that work and sound reasonably hip. You need to use scale patterns that put the chord tones on the right beat. 1-2-3-5 is one... You also need to know which scale matches the chord tones of the chord you are playing. This really is not mysterious. I finally posted it all on my sibelius music page. You can look at the whole thing online for free or pay to print it out. I hope anyone that finds it hepful will consider paying but....

Here is the link...

http://www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin...?scoreid=89908

[Jazzin']

Use diatonic and chromatic scales as well as your arpeggios in your line construction.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

You do not want too much of a "leap" between notes.. Not more then a leap of a 3rd, at most a 5th or an octive can be acceptible depending on whats going on in the tune...

Lets look at a few different basic ways to walk a ii V I.. .we will use in C just for easier note purposes..

D- G7 C

Decending:

D C B A : G F E D : C
1 7 6 5 : 1 7 6 5 : 1

Acending:

D E F A : G A B D : C
1 2 3 5 : 1 2 3 5 : 1

Acending Chromatic:

D E F F# : G A Bb B : C
1 2 3 CH : 1 2 3 CH : 1

Acending Skip w/ Chromatic Approach:

D F AD Ab : G A DG Db : C (the rhythm is 1 2 3+ 4)
1 3 5 CH : 1 3 5 CH : 1

Those are some of the basic patterns you will see... they can be sitched up how ever you want...

Decending / Acending
Chromatic Approach / Decending

you can switch by ocitve when going to the 3rd etc... dont go up an ocitve or down an octive to a chromatic or something,..

hope this helps?


There are some Jamie Abersold playalong CD's that have Ron Carter, Rufus Reid etc playing bass lines, transcribe those, you will learn alot from them.. they also sell bass line transcriptions if you want the short cut, i feel you learn more from transcribing rather then memorizing whats on paper... atleast analyze it if you get the line books...

[Kickin'Fruit]

This is all well and good information. I'm not sure if I should just start another thread but my question is: How do you recognize what chords the guitarist is playing in order to outline them? Just by developing your ear and watching where he's playing and trying to predict? I'm a newb and maybe I'll learn all this in due time, but I wanted to know if there was some secret I'm missing.

[WillPlay4Food]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

This is all well and good information. I'm not sure if I should just start another thread but my question is: How do you recognize what chords the guitarist is playing in order to outline them? Just by developing your ear and watching where he's playing and trying to predict? I'm a newb and maybe I'll learn all this in due time, but I wanted to know if there was some secret I'm missing.

What I do is play what I believe to be the root and 3rd notes of the chord a guitarist is playing. If it's a minor 3rd note, then 9/10 times you have a perfect 5th and minor 7th note. If it's major 3rd, then the 7th could still be major but you'll have a perfect 5th.

With rock music I find minor chords match more often than major chords.

Just keep plugging and trying different songs and you'll develop your ear. There is no shortcut, although there are practice techniques that may help you advance faster. I like to sing a note, then find that note on the bass. I'll do this in multiple octaves, and I'll also spin it around by singing one note then trying to sing say a major 6th above the note I previously sang to internalize intervals, then I'll play this note on the bass and see if I was right or not.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

How do you recognize what chords the guitarist is playing in order to outline them? Just by developing your ear and watching where he's playing and trying to predict?

Yes, yes and yes.

Transcribing is the best way to develop your ear, better still if you transcribe guitar and keyboard parts as well as the bass... you'll soon be able to hear whether a chord is major or minor.

Having a knowledge of basic chord theory helps as well.1

There's also no shame in asking what chords he's playing.

[Bassist4Life]

Try to study walking bass line construction. This will help you find greater variety in your lines. You'll find different ways to connect your bass line ideas from chord to chord and chord tone to chord tone.

Joe

[Kickin'Fruit]

Originally Posted by WillPlay4Food

What I do is play what I believe to be the root and 3rd notes of the chord a guitarist is playing. If it's a minor 3rd note, then 9/10 times you have a perfect 5th and minor 7th note. If it's major 3rd, then the 7th could still be major but you'll have a perfect 5th.

With rock music I find minor chords match more often than major chords.

Just keep plugging and trying different songs and you'll develop your ear. There is no shortcut, although there are practice techniques that may help you advance faster. I like to sing a note, then find that note on the bass. I'll do this in multiple octaves, and I'll also spin it around by singing one note then trying to sing say a major 6th above the note I previously sang to internalize intervals, then I'll play this note on the bass and see if I was right or not.

Good! I do that also so I must be on the right track, right? Just takes time? I just don't understand how long it takes to get it correct. I'm afraid if I do it the wrong way then I'll be stuck doing it the wrong way and I'll check the tab to a song and it just seems so much more correct. Maybe I'm not allowing myself enough time to get it correct?