Linear plans for teaching fundamental theory - suggestions?

[Jake of Bass]

Ok, so the situation here is this: I teach guitar and bass to a number of people. Some wish to learn a bit of theory, some are simply at the stage where that's the next direction to head towards.

Basically, my question is this: Is there a specific order to teach theory concepts to students?

I've learnt a lot of theory over the years but in the past 9 or so it's all been kinda from all over the place (when I left school and started playing jazz). For teaching a beginner, what do I start with and where do I move onto next? Chords first? Reading? Scales? Notes on the bass? a bit everything? I don't want to overwhelm my students but a lot of the time I have by trying too explain to much at once. I want to simplify it so each new concept links to the previous one, expands upon previous knowledge. Any suggestions? I also don't want to jump back and forth, it needs to be linear so the student gets a gradual learning curve, rather than 2 steps forward, 1 back, 3 forward etc.

[BassChuck]

Keep the theory simple and apply it to what your students are playing. If they are beginners and just starting to learn scales show them how the major scale is constructed from whole and half steps. Once they get a grip on that, compare that to minor scale construction. If they seem interested add in some modes or jazz scales.

Just take them through the normal progression of learning how to play bass and learning how to make music. Use theory to explain the 'why' of what they are doing.

P.S.--- Don't tell them its "Music Theory", just make it a part of the lesson.

[Jake of Bass]

Some of them are keen to learn, and I incorporate the theory into how it applies to their playing. I guess I'm just wondering do I go "chords, arpeggios, scales, circle of fifths, modes" etc? I'm wanting to have a lesson plan that goes from A to B to C in a way that is relevant to their previous knowledge and previous lessons.

[Fergie Fulton]

Theory has to be able to be applied to get the full benifit and understanding of it, building on what has gone before so the next part is understood. So my approach is this,
Pitch..taking in clefs.
Rhythm..note values, time sigs., rests, dotted notes, etc
Part 1. of notation..accidentals, The Cmajor scale, intervals (include aug. and dim.), inversions
Scales and keys..major, minor(harmonic then melodic) chromatic scales, key recognision etc
Triads...formation of, types, position etc.
Advanced rhythms.... triplet, duplet, quadruplet,quintolet, sextolet, septolet, syncopation, compound time sigs., grouping etc
Harmony...7th, 9th, 13th, chords, chromatic chords, chord inversions, suspension, ahw its a minefield, i could go on for ages on chords and there relation to harmony like Neopolitian 6th, passing notes, Modulation.etc. This is the part you will have to work on more than any other, and it is sadly the part that is left lacking in most teaching as it can be such a minefield, but it has very, very satisfiying results for both student and teacher. for me it is the part i learn new ideas and thinkings from, just by the questions some students raise.
Transposition....between clefs, instruments, etc
Miscellaneous...Phrasing, ornamentation, modes,signs and abbreviations, musical terms, part writting,etc.

I order them as such as it identifies music and bass playing at the start and then leaves room for development side by side suporting each other all the way to harmony when the mine field is encountered.

Up to that point the student can stop his theroy and get off as the order supports what his interest is in in a musical genre (there is no point in going all the way to triads if he or she say wants to play rock, or pop music).Reggie on the other hand will need all before that and advanced rhymns and some harmony theory, jazz will need it all i believe and some more.

So you can see the thinking and the way i set out to teach, bass as part of music. Its up to me as the teacher to keep on finding ways to apply it, find out the way a student learns best and adapt for them what i want them to learn. Thats the part where some teacher fail, they can't teach what the know and the student has to adapt to them.
Hope it gives you some ideas

[Jake of Bass]

Cool, that helps.

I know how to apply it and make it relevant to the student, the problem is sometimes I explain the basic major triad, then talk about 7ths, then explain that the 7th is a scale degree of the major scale, then explain that, then also point out the difference between major and minor (aural difference) and from there it starts to confuse them as one tangent leads to another. I just get a bit too enthusiastic and I think I make it a bit hard for the novice to keep up with me. So I'm looking to simplify each section and focus on that.

This week though I started on theory with a guitarist I've had for about 12 months or so. We spent the entire lesson and I just worked with a C major chord and how it's constructed using the intervals. I went very slowly and thoroughly and lo and behold, he understood it completely so he could construct a major chord in any key. Next lesson we'll look at minor chords.

This thread stemmed from something I read very recently on studybass.com that chords should be taught before learning scales. That way you're expanding upon the chordal idea to include all notes within the scale, but the chord remains the focus so when it comes to soloing your approach is more chord/arpeggio focussed than scale focussed. I want to teach more along those lines but rather than just plagiarising from another site I'm more comfortable discussing it on here so I get some ideas and a framework that is easily understood.

Here's the page that got me into really wanting to hone the teaching process to be very methodical.

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bas...s-are-primary/

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

This thread stemmed from something I read very recently on studybass.com that chords should be taught before learning scales. some ideas and a framework that is easily understood.

Here's the page that got me into really wanting to hone the teaching process to be very methodical.

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bas...s-are-primary/

Yes thats cool stuff and the dabate has raged on ever since i was a kid about the same subject. They argued that a guitar player will play chords as the first thing he does on the instrument then develop their lead skills as a result. Great for explaining the reason for good guitarists but what about the many many more that are crap?

There are three aproaches you should consider, chordal, scalar, and ear. A student will find one better than the other, we had this discussion on a post a while back, its the brain and how it deals with the information it recieves, right sided and left sided dominant. In some pupils its the chordal approach, in others its the scalar approach, and in some it is by ear. I use their strengths to support what i teach, the teachers duty is to work out which one the student requires.

You cannot plagiarise anything in teaching, think about it. In the national corriculum all subjects are taught to a standard set out by an exam board and backed up by books, media and active content so everyone gets the same information to help acheive the highest standard possible and can be measured against each other by their grades as to how well they done. So the subject matter is all the same but the grades are all so different. Its the teacher that is the difference along with the pupils ability to learn. So teachers can make a subject fun, interesting and easy to learn, they make you look forward to that class, other do the exact opposite. So find ideas,teachings from other sources and incorporate them in to your teaching.

One of the reasons i put scales first is it develops the stamina and strength in the hands with the coordination required to play what is to come. After all if a student is going to make his millions playing... say... rock music in the style of AC/DC, chord study is a waste of his money and your time. Trust me i know many good players that could not play AC/DC on tour as the stamina is not there.

I spend hours on the C scale alone and its importance to what i teach with new students, some of whom have being playing for years and the idea of tetrachord has never been taught to them. You can't teach scalar method with out understanding tetrachord formation, the clue is in the name.

Good talking with you Jake, by the way its f###ing freezing here in the UK, take care.

[Jake of Bass]

Well I've been getting into chord study, but that's largely for the benefit of my guitar students. I went through it with one bass student today and gave him a little homework, just to construct and play chords C, F, G, A and B, just so he gets the concept of a major triad. Moving onto minor chords should be easier, and then move on from there. Early days yet, but they're getting the concepts and in time I'll show them how to apply them.

It's pretty warm here, sub tropical summer and all...