lined fretless,right BEHIND the line or ON the line?

[quadrogong]

on a lined fretless,u finger a note directly behind the line?
or on the line?
or in the middle?(like a fretted)

[BEADG]

On the line.

[Spector_Ray]

Originally Posted by BEADG

On the line.

+1

[lpdeluxe]

On the line, unless your intonation is off, in which case in front of the line or behind the line.

The concept of a lined fretless is that you put your finger to stop the speaking length of the string at the same point the fret would be were it fretted.

[spade2you]

....which is not to say the fret line is exactly where the note is, which is why I find lines too confusing for me.

[Jim Carr]

yes, on most innstruments, lines = frets, so your finger does the job of the fret, sort of.

I don't mean to be flippant, but I feel you should "put your finger" where your ears tell you. Why simply settle for the compromised intonation of fret positions?

[Bassist4Life]

Play on the line as a guide. You will have to adjust your intonation based on your playing situation. Trust your ear.

Joe

[lpdeluxe]

Originally Posted by spade2you

....which is not to say the fret line is exactly where the note is, which is why I find lines too confusing for me.

Yeah, that's why I'm building an unlined fretless...I'm getting too annoyed at my lined fretless J.

The new neck was finally shipped Friday. It'll take till after Thanksgiving to get here. Too late for second thoughts....

[richnota]

Originally Posted by spade2you

....which is not to say the fret line is exactly where the note is, which is why I find lines too confusing for me.

spade...those metal things on the end of the neck....you turn them and it fixes this sort of problem.

I of course just slide back and forth 'til i sound in tune.

[Brad Johnson]

Sure, the line is where the note is supposed to be but you still have to figure out which part of your finger to put on it? Most fingers are a lot wider than most lines.

And just to keep things simple, it can vary at different points on the fingerboard. Short answer: It depends.

[Baryonyx]

I aim to put my finger what appears to be just behind the line. Because if I look closely, the last point of contact with my finger is always a bit more "to the right" than I think it is. Going behind the line keeps my intonation spot on.

[Asa Samuel]

wherever it sounds right, which if your intonation is correct it would be on the line.

and for fretted you put your finger just behind the frets not in the middle.

[bucephylus]

Honestly, this is the first time I have ever read that lines are inaccurate. I understand that guys don't like the looks and think it appears they are playing on a middle school band instrument or something. OK.

But, now we're saying Mike Pedulla, Joe Zon, and Fender can't get the line where its supposed to be. Good grief. Now, you guys are going to start saying the reason you don't play with frets is that none of the fretted instruments out there are properly intonated. That must be why most of the pros out there sound so lousy.

I love this place for its high entertainment value.

[Baird6869]

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

On the line, unless your intonation is off, in which case in front of the line or behind the line.

What he said.

[Dbassmon]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

But, now we're saying Mike Pedulla, Joe Zon, and Fender can't get the line where its supposed to be. Good grief. Now, you guys are going to start saying the reason you don't play with frets is that none of the fretted instruments out there are properly intonated. That must be why most of the pros out there sound so lousy.

Not so fast bucephylus... This place is entertaining but you can also learn something here too....

Fact, Even the best made fretted bass has notes which are slightly out of tune. (Fodera, Zon, blah , blah, blah). Check it out with a chromatic digital tuning device.

Buzz Feiten temper tuning system attempts to address these intonation inconsistencies on fretted isntruments. I have never used this system but anyone who does, or has, please chime in.

Lines vs no lines...
There is nothing wrong with using fret markers as a guide to finger placement on a fretless bass. I would rather hear a fretless player mostly in tune than a guy standing on principle and playing an unmarked neck and playing very out of tune.

At the end of the day, playing a fretless instruments is about developing your ears to slight differences in pitch. You will hear even the best fretless players making micro adjustments in the intonation of a given note....lines or no. The most important technical hurdle to playing fretless instruments is learning position playing and keeping strict hand postion and posture. The best way to learn this is scales & arpeggios in multiple octaves. It will make finding a well intonated note a lot easier. Practice in front of a mirror. Record yourself. Listen back.

After a while, you should not be looking at the lines on the neck. Muscle memory will tell where a note is and your developed sense of pitch with tell if an adjustment is needed.

[phxlbrmpf]

I too try to put my finger slightly behind the line and no one I played with has complained so far. It sounds right to me, too.

[Stereo Joe]

Actually, depending on what register you are playing in, you will have to adjust your finger placement to be in tune.
I have my bass intonated so that at the 12th 'fret', if I play right ON where the line would be (I don't actually have lines) the bass is in tune.
However, to be in tune in the lower registers (positions 1 - 4 ish), I actually have to play slightly ahead of the 'line'.
In upper registers above twelfth 'fret', I have to play slightly behind the 'line' to be in tune.

Gary Willis sums it up better than me:
http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bas...tonation4.html

[brandonwong]

Actually a student just asked me the very same question the other day.
My answer was both... "on" the line and also "behind the line".

Reason because all our fingers are different sized.
The index finger is big compared to our pinkie.
What i realized thru years of playing lined and unlined fretless is that for the index, in tune on the line. and for pinkie, behind the line.
It also has to do with how our finger curves in and make contact with the strings and fingerboard.
You will realized that we finger our index finger almost flat.. but then curl the pinkie and hence play at the side of the pinkie.
All these contributes to whether "on" or "behind" is in tune.

But the ultimate judgement is still made with the ear.
Even perfectly intonated fretted bass are not totally in tune.
Your ear will want to hear certain notes a teenie bit sharp or flat depending on the keys you are playing in.

[Flintc]

Some fretless basses have bridge saddles that can be moved back and forth, changing the string length and therefore moving the points where you put your finger to be in tune. I think in general, lines offer good advice, not hard requirements. They ensure that you're fairly close; your ear must do the rest.

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

Honestly, this is the first time I have ever read that lines are inaccurate. I understand that guys don't like the looks and think it appears they are playing on a middle school band instrument or something. OK.

But, now we're saying Mike Pedulla, Joe Zon, and Fender can't get the line where its supposed to be. Good grief. Now, you guys are going to start saying the reason you don't play with frets is that none of the fretted instruments out there are properly intonated. That must be why most of the pros out there sound so lousy.

I love this place for its high entertainment value.

This conversation could get deep very fast. I don't want to open up that can of worms. To keep it simple, tuning is relative. Even fretted instruments are "out of tune". After a piano is tuned, it's still out of tune. One interval that stands out is the "major 3rd". The 3rd needs to be slightly lower to be in-tune, but you can't really change that on the piano or a fretted instrument. Our ears have come to accept that level of pitch difference. It's not awful and most people don't even notice it. It's splitting hairs, but it is a reality and it bothers a number or musicians. The brass players I know are especially sensitive to the major 3rd interval.

Joe