A little music education advice needed!

[Stereo Joe]

WARNING: This ended up being longer than I thought. If you don't feel like reading the whole thing, feel free to skip ahead to my 'summary' and offer advice based on that. Any help is appreciated.


I'm just looking for a little advice on the direction of my musical career.
I'm about 2 years away from finishing a Bachelor of Music degree at Carleton University in Ottawa. I've taken the last 2 years off to practice and gig, and just to get some more experience under my belt. I've had a LOT of time to think and I've decided that I want to continue to focus on making a career as a performing bassist.
The problem I'm having is that the music program I'm in isn't the best for performance students. Most of the courses and instruction are tailored to musicology (especially ethnomusicology), theory, and history. The performance program is sort of an afterthought. I find that I'm not very challenged at this school and there aren't a lot of opportunities through Carleton to advance my playing. Most of my study time is taken up writing essays and sitting through lectures where the majority of the students aren't even music majors - and as a result the topics are reduced to non-theoretical analysis of musical styles and pieces. Basically, dumbed-down music history courses for art majors who don't know much about music.
I do really like living in Ottawa though - and I'm in a good circle of musicians as well. I'm started to get more gigs based on my local reputation and I think it will only get better that way. However, I'm not planning on staying here forever and I need to keep the future in mind.

Recently I found out that Humber College in Toronto has a program called 'Bridging the Gap' that allows musicians from another school who've had 2 years of University education to enter into the program and finish off at Humber. This sounds very appealing to me because I know I will be challenged and pushed at Humber and will many more opportunities to advance my skills and play with incredible musicians.
My main concern with this avenue is that I don't if Humber's program is a good lead-in for a Masters degree. I want to earn my Masters and be able to teach at a University level, but I don't know if Humber, as a college, will end up closing off that route for me.

So basically, I have two choices:

*****SUMMARY******

Option #1. Stay and finish the program at Carleton. I will be frustrated with the program and have to find ways to challenge myself and to get as much out of the program as possible. I will struggle to find time to practice in the midst of all the essays and non-music assignments. On the upside, I will finish with a B.Mus that will allow me to apply to Graduate studies in music later on. I also will get to continue playing with some talented musician friends and continue building my local reputation as a bassist.

Option #2. Try to get into the Humber program in Toronto. I'll have to start fresh in a new city with no contacts. I also don't know if the program will allow for me to later apply to Graduate studies in music. On the other hand, the quality of the education I would receive would be much higher and there would be a much larger pool of talented musicians to learn from. I would be able to focus on performance primarily with fewer wasted efforts in un-related and unnecessary subjects.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks in advance!

P.S. Obviously, I've left out some other considerations like cost of living and finding employment in Ottawa VS Toronto. Mainly, I'm concerned with my musical education at this point and am willing to sacrifice in other areas as needed.

[mutedeity]

It seems to me that you have answered your own question in a lot of ways, really. You aren't getting what you want out of your current college. You can remedy this situation. You don't want to stay where you are forever, and your oportunities will increase by changing schools. On the other hand you have to find work, a place to live, new friends and contacts etc. Really what you want to know is, should you take the risk and go. I think only you can answer that one, but you seem to have already assessed the risk vs the reward.

[Freddels]

My .02

Stay where you are. You know the program and I'm assuming that you're getting good grades since you say it doesn't really challenge you. You are gigging locally and this experience is more than you're going to get at another college. If you changed schools, you'd have to re-establish yourself with the local musicians which could take some time away from playing. If you have good grades from where you are going now, you should be able to get into a graduate program. If it's a performance graduate program that you're interested in, then it's not really going to matter where you got your undergrad, it's going to matter whether or not you can play.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Freddels

My .02

Stay where you are. You know the program and I'm assuming that you're getting good grades since you say it doesn't really challenge you. You are gigging locally and this experience is more than you're going to get at another college. If you changed schools, you'd have to re-establish yourself with the local musicians which could take some time away from playing. If you have good grades from where you are going now, you should be able to get into a graduate program. If it's a performance graduate program that you're interested in, then it's not really going to matter where you got your undergrad, it's going to matter whether or not you can play.

+1 Stay and search out more musicians outside of school to play with. Most players in schools do that anyway. Also you want a degree to teach even more important to stay put. Once out of school you will have more options and ways to support yourself as your start the real world aspect of your life.

I know it seems like forever, but better to take a couple years now than get ten or more years into your life and think about going back to finish what you started.

[mutedeity]

I think you both misread his post. He is basically talking about transferring to another college. He is concerned about moving away from his hometown and having to get a job to support himself there where he doesn't initially know anyone. He isn't talking about dropping out of college altogether, I believe. The other concern is that he doesn't know if he can do graduate studies. That is the one thing I think he should look into, but all the same having a degree should entitle him to graduate studies at other colleges/universities.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

I think you both misread his post. He is basically talking about transferring to another college. He is concerned about moving away from his hometown and having to get a job to support himself there where he doesn't initially know anyone. He isn't talking about dropping out of college altogether, I believe. The other concern is that he doesn't know if he can do graduate studies. That is the one thing I think he should look into, but all the same having a degree should entitle him to graduate studies at other colleges/universities.

No we are saying his Option 1 is the better choice for the long run.

[hunta]

I was in a similar situation in college. 2 years in, stay where I'm at and not getting what I want, or go to another school that I think has what I want? I ended up transferring, and ultimately I still don't know if it was a good choice (been out for almost a year).

I ended up getting what I wanted as far as classical theory and training were concerned, and losing out a bit as far as doing recording, and I lost a damn good bass teacher... I also ended up having to do a 5 year undergrad program even though I had a great GPA, never failed a class, and frequently took around 20 credits a semester.

When you transfer schools there's a good chance you're going to delay your graduation, and if you end up not liking it, transferring again will only set you back further. I think that ultimately what you get out of school is up to you, and unless the degree at Humber actually leads to more employment opportunities, then it doesn't really matter once you graduate.

In my opinion, much time is wasted by talented or driven students trying to find the ultimate/perfect education program, when really there isn't one. Generally speaking, schools are not geared towards those who really want to learn or push themselves, and you're probably better off in the grand scheme of things just getting done with school ASAP and joining the real world. If your concern is graduate school acceptance, they care more about your grades and how well you do on admissions tests than where your bachelors degree is from.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by DocBop

+1 Stay and search out more musicians outside of school to play with. Most players in schools do that anyway. Also you want a degree to teach even more important to stay put. Once out of school you will have more options and ways to support yourself as your start the real world aspect of your life.

I know it seems like forever, but better to take a couple years now than get ten or more years into your life and think about going back to finish what you started.

Looks like you are under the impression he is wanting to quit study.

He doesn't say what qualifications he will receive with option 2 but all thing being equal, in that he gets a BMus at the end, I can't see why it's necessarily a better option to stay in a programme that is of a lower standard and is less academically satisfying.

[Edit] As hunta says though there is a risk that he won't be satisfied either way which goes back to my first post, the risk assessment is something he really needs to do on his own and decide what is ultimately right for him. I also agree with the statement that what you get out of school on a tertiary level is up to you.

[Freddels]

I don't think we misread the OP. His options were to stay where he is (in Ottawa) or transfer to another college (Toronto). Our opinion was for him to stay where he is and finish.

If he really wants to teach music at a college level, then a performance degree isn't the best route to go. Jazz schools are looking for people that can teach things like theory, composition, ARRANGING.

[Stereo Joe]

Hey guys! Thanks for all the advice!! I guess I should clarify that when I mean I want to teach at a university level, I want to be able to give private instruction to university bassists. I don't necessarily want to be employed as a lecturer or professor.

I guess the other thing I should look into is whether or not I can graduate with a BMus from Humber in Toronto.

Also, I seem to be hearing that if I want to take a Masters in performance, it doesn't necessarily matter where I get my BMus, as long as I have the necessary playing skills for the program.

[Freddels]

You are correct that it doesn't matter where you get your degree from if you want to pursue a MM in performance. It just matters that you can play.

Now, wanting to give private lessons to univ levels student I'm not quite understanding. If you want to make a living giving private lessons, then don't limit yourself to univ level students. Many univ levels students are going to be studying URB and therefore you would need to be a monster classical and/or monster jazz player for them to seek you out for private lessons (pretty much the same for EB but not many univ offer EB as an instrument).

I think you should do some more research on what you really want to do with the MM before you jump into it.

Best,

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Freddels

You are correct that it doesn't matter where you get your degree from if you want to pursue a MM in performance. It just matters that you can play.

Now, wanting to give private lessons to univ levels student I'm not quite understanding. If you want to make a living giving private lessons, then don't limit yourself to univ level students. Many univ levels students are going to be studying URB and therefore you would need to be a monster classical and/or monster jazz player for them to seek you out for private lessons (pretty much the same for EB but not many univ offer EB as an instrument).

I think you should do some more research on what you really want to do with the MM before you jump into it.

Best,

I agree that he shouldn't limit himself. I would have taken his comment as inclusive rather than exclusive though.

[Hawaii Islander]

I suggest that you ask the admissions personnel at Humber Polytechnical Institute for information concerning their accreditation. They should be able to provide you with statistical information regarding the number of their graduates that have gone on to Graduate School for Music at other Universities.

I would seriously consider Option #2, if it provides you with the education that you want.

Good Luck!

[Stereo Joe]

Thanks!

I would pursue getting a M.Mus in performance mainly because of the advanced skills I could learn as a performer. The teaching thing is more of an aside - something that I know can earn me a living if the gigs aren't lining up all the time. I don't want to exclude teaching beginners, but I want to be qualified to teach people who aren't just 'hobby' musicians and who are pursuing an academic musical education.

Does this make sense? (I'm almost confusing myself...)

[Winterpegbass]

I have friends who have studied jazz performance at Humber, St. Francis-Xavier near Halifax and Grant McEwen in Edmonton. They all said jazz college was a great two years for performance.

One friend (trumpet player) who continued his music education did this at McGill in Montreal and earned a Bachelor of Music Education. He said that the other players in the jazz program were high level performers and the stage bands that he was in were amazing. Montreal was a large enough city to keep him in gigs for three years while he was studying there. In the summers he did the cruise ship gigs and jazz festival circuit. He has taught high school band ever since and gigs in the evenings and weekends. Band teachers and teachers in general make a great deal more money in Canada ($70,000/yr) than school teachers in the US.

Option #2 is a problem as Humber is a college not a University (in Canada there is a big difference). They have started to offer a Bachelor degree but accreditation may be an issue as it may not be recognized by Universities offering Master's degrees.

You would be better off staying in your program or transfering your courses to a recognized University like McGill.

[Stereo Joe]

Originally Posted by Winterpegbass

*SNIP*
Option #2 is a problem as Humber is a college not a University (in Canada there is a big difference). They have started to offer a Bachelor degree but accreditation may be an issue as it may not be recognized by Universities offering Master's degrees.

You would be better off staying in your program or transfering your courses to a recognized University like McGill.

Thanks for the info! I guess that's the bit of info I needed. If Humber will close doors in terms of getting a Masters later, I think I'll schlep it out at Carleton for a little longer.

Thanks!