Locking in with a drummer

[conttador]

Everyone says lock in with the drummer, how do you know you've locked in? What do you lock in with? If you have a unique theory on how this is achieved, I want to hear/read it.
If you think it differs by style or what have you I want to know. If it takes 6 or 7 paragraphs to explain I have time if you do.

[kr0n]

When you both feel the time exactly the same.

You could separate them from to different rooms for a minute, bring them and still they'd be on the beat at the exact same moment in time.

[251]

Originally Posted by conttador

Everyone says lock in with the drummer, how do you know you've locked in? What do you lock in with? If you have a unique theory on how this is achieved, I want to hear/read it.
If you think it differs by style or what have you I want to know. If it takes 6 or 7 paragraphs to explain I have time if you do.

You & the drummer need to maintain the same tempo & agree about where the band can find the downbeat. This varies from one music style to another; the bass may be on the beat, in front of or behind the beat. For some styles, Salsa comes to mind, the down beat is there but the bass rare plays it. Reggae always seems to me, to be outside the rhythm most of the time, YRMV. Even if the "one" isn't played, the band must be able to feel it. Bass & drums do this by listening, tolerating a stumble or creative moment & reasserting the rhythm.

It's something you & the drummer "discuss" with music, not words. I doubt you can practice this by yourself. It's time to set up a regular jam session, if you aren't already in a group.

[DWBass]

This is easily acheived if your drummer has good meter and plays a constant kick pattern! When drummers vary their meter and patterns it makes it extremely difficult for me to lock in with them. It means they are not 'listening' to me or anyone else in the band! The drummer drives everything. If he's off, the band is off!

Many will say lock in with the kick drum but it's not always about that! To me, tempo and a constant driving pattern make for a tight rhythm section. I call it 'pocket' playing!

Gotta be in the 'pocket'!

[sad_katz]

When both you and the drummer can play with the same groove and tempo regardless of the musical style. The notes played may not always happen at the same time, but they intertwine.

It's more of an abstract concept but immediately felt when drums and bass play together.
The best way to experience it is to play together with the drummer. My experience of bass and drum *not* locking in together is the moment when the drummer suddenly drops the tempo in the middle of a gig.
I immediately felt something was off in both sound and feel/groove, and immediately dropped my tempo to catch up the drummer.

[conttador]

It's weird, I know when it's on or not. I guess I am not the only one that has a hard time articulating the concept. I've gone to jam sessions where a drummer will come up to me and tell me that my playing was on time but I was not locking in with their _______. You fill in the blank.

I usually try to find the one beat and like spider, weave my way through a tune.

[sricks3]

I've played along side several drummers recently who all shared 2 HUGE MISCONCEPTIONS regarding this concept:

First: It is solely the bassist's responsibility to lock in with the drummer while the drummer simply plays whatever and however he likes. I even had one drummer ask the sound guy for nothing but rhythm guitar and vocals in his monitor. When I asked him how he was going to hear me he told me that he wouldn't need to as long as I was locking in with his beat.

Second: The statement "The bassist should lock in with the drummer" can be restated as "The bassist should only play on the beats where the bass drum is played." While there's nothing explicitly wrong with simply adding pitch to the bass drum, this severely limits the possibilities of the groove. I think drummers also forget that this limits their creative possibilities as well since they are not able to change up their kick pattern at any point during the song unless the bassist also knows that it's coming. Once again...

Has anyone else noticed this becoming a trend among drummers?

I'm sorry that this probably does not help to explain what it DOES mean to lock in with the drummer, but maybe it helps clarify some things that it DOES NOT mean.

[conttador]

Originally Posted by sricks3

I've played along side several drummers recently who all shared 2 HUGE MISCONCEPTIONS regarding this concept:

First: It is solely the bassist's responsibility to lock in with the drummer while the drummer simply plays whatever and however he likes. I even had one drummer ask the sound guy for nothing but rhythm guitar and vocals in his monitor. When I asked him how he was going to hear me he told me that he wouldn't need to as long as I was locking in with his beat.

Second: The statement "The bassist should lock in with the drummer" can be restated as "The bassist should only play on the beats where the bass drum is played." While there's nothing explicitly wrong with simply adding pitch to the bass drum, this severely limits the possibilities of the groove. I think drummers also forget that this limits their creative possibilities as well since they are not able to change up their kick pattern at any point during the song unless the bassist also knows that it's coming. Once again...

Has anyone else noticed this becoming a trend among drummers?

I'm sorry that this probably does not help to explain what it DOES mean to lock in with the drummer, but maybe it helps clarify some things that it DOES NOT mean.

I've played with drummers that tell me something like "I like what you did on _______, it accentuated my __________" I've done the same like hey I noticed you were doing ________ on your ________ and it sounded cool when I played ________"

Long story short, good drummers will listen to your playing and accentuate it and the same goes for bass players. I've had piano players tell me "I like how you outlined the _______ chord, it sounded really cool". As bassplayers we don't just lock in with the drummer, we lock in with all the other musicians. I guess that's the difference between a bass player and a musician.

I guess the next quiestion is, what do you listen for when you are trying to lock in with a drummer?

[sricks3]

Ah, looking back at my previous post, I realize that I may have come across as a fairly selfish bassist. It certainly IS important to listen to and adapt to what the drummer (and the other musicians) are playing. Having begun my musical career playing in small, classical chamber groups, this idea was beat into my head for years.

I've also played with some truly fantastic drummers. You know that you and the drummer are really clicking ("locking in" maybe?) when you get the feeling that you're thinking the exact same thing that he is even though you haven't said a word to each other since you started playing. One of you can add a little twist to the groove or even change it entirely without the other missing a beat. Those are the best days.

I've just noticed the 2 misconceptions I listed earlier being more and more common in the drummers I'm playing with these days. I hope it's not a trend developing that will carry on in the next wave of upcomming drummers.

[James Judson]

If you can't tell if that "boom' is bass or kick your locking in with the drummer. If you are playing a lick/run/walk up to the next chord (as the drummer is playing that same transition) you are locking in with the drummer. If you are playing a simple kick type pattern and you start adding a counter rhythm (like following a hi-hat) your locking in to the drummer. If you put in an accent on the same beat as the drummer your................

There are two types of musicians.

One plays at you (sricks3 pointed out a couple) and its not really a bad thing cuz that is usually solid and predictable.

The other listens and locks onto the bass line. Pushing and pulling and creating dynamics. I prefer this second type and it usually results in the bass player and drummer grinning at the end of the song.

Both need to remember they are back up musicians and their job is making the front person look, sound, and be better than they would be solo.

[251]

Originally Posted by conttador

It's weird, I know when it's on or not. I guess I am not the only one that has a hard time articulating the concept. I've gone to jam sessions where a drummer will come up to me and tell me that my playing was on time but I was not locking in with their _______. You fill in the blank.

I usually try to find the one beat and like spider, weave my way through a tune.

Making music with others is not always easy. I play with 1 drummer who often speeds up if I get ahead of the beat & slows if I go behind. Unfortunately, it isn't dependable enough to correct tempo when one of us goes outside the rhythm. LOL. The point is, locking in doesn't always mean unison playing. You can never get ahead or go behind the beat, if the drummer expects you to play unison with him/her. Sometimes your 'metronomes' are slightly out of sync at the same tempo, to embellish the music.

Good for you if you can feel when it's right. 8-)

[JimmyM]

"Locking in with a drummer" is a real dumb term invented by rock bands in the 60's who had crappy guitarists-turned-bassists to try and give the bassist some direction. Nowadays it's been misintereted by a generation of soundbyte loving noodniks as "the bassist must follow the drummer and do what he does." Pffft to that! Some of the best music ever recorded has the bassist stepping all over the drummer and it sounds great. Time and a place for everything...

[MalcolmAmos]

I like to stand beside the drums. I can watch as well as hear/feel what he is doing.

Once you have locked in you will know it. Sorry it's hard to explain, but, once there you'll remember how it sounds.

[conttador]

Originally Posted by 251

Making music with others is not always easy.

You got that right. Sometimes it feels right and other times it's like a bad one night (band) stand! I guess I'm not the only one that faces this dilemma.

[wrench45us]

I guess I went to the wrong school. As a drummer we were taught to lock in with the bass player -- though in reality that forced us to listen and provided the mutual agreement -- and in reality it was usually the drummer that drove the band -- it was hard not to
also the bass drum can be doing all sorts of accents, we were taught to keep the beat steady on the hi-hat

[sricks3]

Originally Posted by wrench45us

I guess I went to the wrong school.

None of that really sounds wrong to me. I think we end up in all sorts of musical situations with different instruments/voices carrying the music at different times, but your post sounds pretty sensible to me.

[conttador]

Originally Posted by sricks3

None of that really sounds wrong to me. I think we end up in all sorts of musical situations with different instruments/voices carrying the music at different times, but your post sounds pretty sensible to me.

Everyone is going to have a different perspective which is why I asked in the first place. There should be no right or wrong answer. I am hoping that I can take something that worked for someone else and make it work for me.
Everyone teaches differently and it's up to the learner to decide if they want to have the same approach or look for something else.

[mattbass6945]

for me, and i've played with good drummers and awful drummers, i strip down whatever they're doing to high hat kick and snare. that helps me "lock in".
however, i will say that i lay back and stick with the root and lock in the poor drummers, and play a lot more "freely" with the decent ones. i am only as good as my drummer. just me? i dunno.....

[LothrtheTerribl]

I focus on the kick when I'm playing rock to lay a nice, thick groove. If I'm playing something a little funkier, I pay more attention to the hihat and try to bounce with it.

[carlthegroover]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Some of the best music ever recorded has the bassist stepping all over the drummer and it sounds great.

Example?