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  #1  
Old 10-01-2007, 01:15 PM
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Logical progression of theory?

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I've been trying to solidify my knowledge of theory because to be honest i'm horrible at improv. Given 5 or so minutes i can break down a song and make a passable bassline but i can't do it on the spot so i'm attempting the old theory and scales route. So anyway... What would you say is the logical progression of theory? I dont know where to start and where to go in what order.
Is there a good book to guide me or what would be the direction i should take this?
  #2  
Old 10-01-2007, 02:37 PM
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I'd say the logical progression is kinda like this:

1.) learn the major scale, and how it's constructed
2.) learn the minor scale and the dominant scale and how it relates to the major scale
3.) understand how other 4 modes of the major scale are derived (less important to memorize these other modes at first)
4.) Learn how to harmonize the notes of a major and minor scale by building chords / stacking thirds
5.) Learn to look at common chord progressions as "numerals" (eg, I-IV-V ect) to understand how the chords relate to the song's key.
7.)Learn arppegios/chord tones, and pentatonic scales for major/minor/dominant scales.
8.) dive back into modes for more detailed ideas about what "goes" with what chord.

Improvising is basically a matter of knowing what to play over various chords. It may seem daunting at first my practical experience (bass in pop/rock) has been that I mostly use Major, Minor, and Dominant 7 related bassline patterns, usually based on chord tones and pentatonics.

If Jazz is your thing, you will probably be learning theory forever.

Also, learn songs you like and pick them apart to see how the bassline relates to the chords. Very helpful.
  #3  
Old 10-01-2007, 03:01 PM
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It's at least as much a question of ear training as it is of theory knowledge. You need to start learning common chord progressions and how they sound. When you get better at this you will also start learning how you can anticipate the next chord based on what is played before it.

A way on how to learn common chord progressions is to start transcribing songs (the chords are enough to start with) and just playing along to various songs. If you happen to play in a cover band, transcribe songs you want to introduce on your repertoire. It's easier to motivate yourself if you have a real use for the transcriptions. Start with easy songs and move to harder ones as you get better.

I transcribed probably hundreds of songs when I played in a cover band for 7 years, and that has proven to be very useful. I haven't ever studied more than basic music theory, but thanks to the transcribing, my theory knowledge is on a reasonably good level. Another thing that have been useful is to read the threads here about theory. They get pretty interesting from time to time.

Hope this helps you a bit.
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  #4  
Old 10-01-2007, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mambo4 View Post
I'd say the logical progression is kinda like this:

1.) learn the major scale, and how it's constructed
2.) learn the minor scale and the dominant scale and how it relates to the major scale
3.) understand how other 4 modes of the major scale are derived (less important to memorize these other modes at first)
4.) Learn how to harmonize the notes of a major and minor scale by building chords / stacking thirds
5.) Learn to look at common chord progressions as "numerals" (eg, I-IV-V ect) to understand how the chords relate to the song's key.
7.)Learn arppegios/chord tones, and pentatonic scales for major/minor/dominant scales.
8.) dive back into modes for more detailed ideas about what "goes" with what chord.

Improvising is basically a matter of knowing what to play over various chords. It may seem daunting at first my practical experience (bass in pop/rock) has been that I mostly use Major, Minor, and Dominant 7 related bassline patterns, usually based on chord tones and pentatonics.

If Jazz is your thing, you will probably be learning theory forever.

Also, learn songs you like and pick them apart to see how the bassline relates to the chords. Very helpful.
great advice..also, while you are doing all this, learn your fretboard inside out! i am finding this to be very important..

i spent a lot of time learning "theory" from a book..like say "harmonizing a moajor scale".. i can give a big lecture on how to do it, but when i tried to actually play it on my bass, i was fumbling like hell..the reason for this was i did not know where all the notes i wanted to play were on the fingerboard.. so make it a point to know where each and every note is on your fret board, how to play different stuff like arpeggios at different positions on the fretboard, how to "connect modes". etc. etc..

also, another thing i try to do when i am trying to learn theory is try not to fall into the "pattern playing" trap in the beginning..i first try to "internalize" the theory before i look for patterns that i can replicate for all keys..this makes it easier for me to remember the theory stuff..(to give you an example, you can come up with a pattern to play the major triad..all you have to do is learn the pattern and keep shifting the root position to replicate the triad in all keys..that's great..but this will not help you remember the triads..so try to delibrately avoid playing aptterns, and try to play the notes of the triad picking up the notes at random positions ont he fretboard..once you have learnt the notes using this method, start using pattern to further burn it into your memory..)
  #5  
Old 10-01-2007, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by goolimari View Post
great advice..also, while you are doing all this, learn your fretboard inside out!
+1000
Thank you goolimari for adding that.

It is all about learning the theory in you hands, on the neck.
so at the end of each of my 8 points you could add "...and learn it on the neck"

Seriously, my hands know theory faster than my brain does. If asked to "play C-Am-D-G" or "Play a one-six-two-five in C", the latter would come out much faster

...Eventually you should begin to think/play in terms of functional chord progressions as opposed to specific chord names.

oh and the resource I always plug when somebody wants to learn theory:
http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html
  #6  
Old 10-01-2007, 07:26 PM
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I can't find anyhting on google but there is some high and low chord progressions.
If you learn the high and low that might help you.

I will keep looking on google for a place where they explain the high/low.
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Old 10-01-2007, 08:23 PM
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