The longer I play, the less I seem to know -- you too?

Testing_123 · #1 03-03-2011, 09:38 AM

I've played bass for 15-ish years, including several years of experience playing in original rock and pop projects of various genre permutations (live and recording). Taught lessons for awhile. I'm not a virtuoso, but I can do the job, and I have a decent ear, so if I can hear a tune a few times I can usually figure out the key elements quickly.

My latest project is a trio, meaning a bit more room for the instrumentalists to roam and explore, but also less room for "error" (quotes intended). I'm feeling really good about my technique, how I'm locking in with and playing off the drummer, and have been having fun working some more melodic elements into my parts.

In short, my musicianship is perhaps "the best" it has ever been.

And yet, I come home from rehearsals more sensitive than ever as to how much more work I could do to prepare and practice, and more aware of places in the music where I'm struggling to balance playing that "fits" the song, yet is musically innovative or interesting.

The better I get at the bass, the less good I seem to get.

Anyone else experienced this in their own playing?

Your musico-existential comments are invited...

tangentmusic · #2 03-03-2011, 09:52 AM

Well, to me it seems as though you have matured musically.
Being most concerned about what's best for the song, and trying to balance that with some interesting playing is the hallmark of a good, solid, intellectual player. I too struggle to walk this line. You're not alone in that.
If you feel that your current playing is at its best, but know you can be better, keep at it. The best is truly yet to come

mambo4 · #3 03-03-2011, 11:22 AM

I agree with tangent music, and it matches my experience too.
It's not that I "know less" , its that my sense of what is most appropriate has increased to the point where I most often favor the simplest lines that serve the song.
I can complexify my ideas easily, but to craft a complex part that doesn't step other parts, and still serves the song takes time and effort.
The result is that I just don't end up applying "everything I know" when playing.

BigOldHarry · #4 03-03-2011, 11:29 AM

That is the very essence of wisdom. Welcome to the inner circle.

The more you THINK you know, the less you know.

And stuff.

ergbass · #5 03-03-2011, 12:13 PM

sadly true..

stratovani · #6 03-03-2011, 12:39 PM

I agree, it's definitely a sign of maturity. Myself, I'm always amazed at how little I know, it makes the journey of discovery that much more fun!

Sparkdog · #7 03-03-2011, 12:50 PM

I don't think this is uncommon among guys who have played for a long time. It's more about becoming aware of what you DON'T know.

In my case, I started out playing in garage rock bands. We thought we were cool because we could play hot licks, we really didn't care about things like theory and harmonizing a scale...boring!

But as I learned more and played with better musicians I began to realize there was so much more to know about how music is constructed. I also realized how limited my own knowledge actually was and that it was holding me back from doing all I could do with the instrument.

Over the last few years I got real serious about expanding my musical education, took some lessons, studied a lot of different techniques and styles, and made myself go out and join in jams with much better players than myself.

I feel like I've come a long way...but still have SO MUCH FARTHER to go!

BigOldHarry · #8 03-03-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratovani

I agree, it's definitely a sign of maturity. Myself, I'm always amazed at how little I know, it makes the journey of discovery that much more fun!

I think that this is why many of us veteran musicians get frustrated by noobs who come on the list *insisting* that they know what the best this or that is... Heck, the one thing that I DO know is that I have no clue what the best bass / amp / pedal /music / band for *anything* is!

stratovani · #9 03-03-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

I think that this is why many of us veteran musicians get frustrated by noobs who come on the list *insisting* that they know what the best this or that is... Heck, the one thing that I DO know is that I have no clue what the best bass / amp / pedal /music / band for *anything* is!

Yeah, and when you play you sound a thousand times better than they do!

EduardoJoel · #10 03-03-2011, 01:26 PM

I have been called the Best Worst Bassist more than once. I think that as you get older you realize that there is so much more to learn. When we are young we just strap it on and start playing. I played my first show a week after I got my first bass. It was Zombie, All The Small Things, and Fly Away and I thought I was the bees knees.

Johnny Crab · #11 03-03-2011, 05:02 PM

Yes.

BTW, when in college a VERY wise electrical engineering professor said about the same thing except in reference to EE's. He said:
"Yeah, I have a fancy PhD and all these books but my knowledge is like one small spec of ice on a huge iceberg of electrical engineering knowledge. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know".

KingRazor · #12 03-04-2011, 12:44 PM

I've only been playing for 2 years and I feel this way. The more I learn, the more I realize just how big a gap there is between me and the greats.

Stumbo · #13 03-04-2011, 12:48 PM

Socrates once said, "I know you won't believe me, but the highest form of Human Excellence is to question oneself and others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates

Marty Forrer · #14 03-04-2011, 12:51 PM

This is the most wise and profound thread that has ever been on this forum. Bigoldharry says it all!

dvh · #15 03-04-2011, 12:56 PM

Yup. My experience exactly. I've discovered this especially in having picked up double bass....

bassinplace · #16 03-04-2011, 01:38 PM

I'm nowhere near your level of experience, I'm in my first band, also a trio. I find as I learn the material and devise my parts, they don't sound that good to me as we're playing. I don't think they sound bad, but just like there's more I could be doing. Then I hear back the recording, and I have to say I am usually quite pleased with what I hear. I'm surprised how what I thought was too simple seems to serve the song very well. Less is more is the lesson I'm learning from all of this. I have an extensive background as a drummer though and I think that's where my percussion chops come into play. It's really cool to see the time I spend learning and practicing coming to fruition in a way that satisfies my ear.

JimmyM · #17 03-04-2011, 02:27 PM

welcome to enlightenment!

Skitch it! · #18 03-04-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mambo4

I agree with tangent music, and it matches my experience too.
It's not that I "know less" , its that my sense of what is most appropriate has increased to the point where I most often favor the simplest lines that serve the song.
I can complexify my ideas easily, but to craft a complex part that doesn't step other parts, and still serves the song takes time and effort.
The result is that I just don't end up applying "everything I know" when playing.

+1 With this.

Peace Cee · #19 03-04-2011, 02:46 PM

This is a cool thread. I am going through the same thing. You read the interviews in Bass Player, and you always find that the interviewee had a moment where they thought, "just because I can doesn't mean I have to anymore." I am really getting the "less is more" concept. I used to think that people would think less of me if a played the root, when appropriate. This seems to be a rudiment that each has to discover on his or her own.

JimmyM · #20 03-04-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peace Cee

This is a cool thread. I am going through the same thing. You read the interviews in Bass Player, and you always find that the interviewee had a moment where they thought, "just because I can doesn't mean I have to anymore." I am really getting the "less is more" concept. I used to think that people would think less of me if a played the root, when appropriate. This seems to be a rudiment that each has to discover on his or her own.

yep, but otoh, don't be afraid to throw in a bunch of notes if it feels appropriate. as always, the general adage, "serve the song" applies.