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  #1  
Old 11-09-2009, 02:33 AM
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I cant seem to find a site or book or post that explains composition deeply.
Most basically end on how to put chords progressions together.

Im looking for something that is based on chord progressions of different styles and different eras, and could explain some advanced composing techniques.

Is this information available?
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:45 AM
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Won't be easy, but here's something simple to start with:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_sequence

Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2009, 05:50 AM
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From your profile the following may be old hat, but, just in case.........

www.musictheory.net go to Lessons then common chord progressions. In a nut shell this site addresses the movement of chords. Movement - rest, tension, climax, resolution and return to rest AND which chords like to move to what other chords.

I is major, can go anywhere it wants to. I brings the verse, phrase, whatever back to rest, thus you should end at the I.
ii is minor, a sub-dominant and wants to move to a dominant. The IV is also a sub-dominant chord and the ii and IV can sub for each other.
iii is minor, wants to go to the vi chord. thus makes a good pivot chord for a turnaround.
IV is major, a sub-dominant chord like the ii and it wants to go to a dominant chord. As mentioned the ii and IV can sub for each other.
V is major, a dominant chord and it's task is to move to the I tonic chord. IMO in a verse format anything after the V except the I you may be entering into an anti-climatic area - just something to consider. See my note on the viidim chord. The V and viidim also can sub for each other - under certain rules touched on below.
vi is minor, the relative minor chord and wants to move to a sub-dominant chord (ii or IV).
viidim is the diminished chord. It too is dominant and can sub for the V. The viidim chord is a lead to chord, i.e. if you need a dominant chord to end the phrase use the V, however, if you need a dominant chord to lead somewhere else use the viidim. Both want to move to the tonic I chord, however, the viidim likes to lead to the iii thus taking the progression on another journey before moving to resolution. Normally to the iii chord.

That gives you the basic movement between rest, tension, climax, resolution and return to rest the verse, or phrase, must make, plus outlines which chords LIKE to move to what other chords. If we let them move where they like it normally works out for the better.

Next comes harmony. If the melody notes and the chord used under them share some, at least one, note they harmonize. Here is where the extensions, Amaj7, A6, A9, Aadd9, etc come into play. If you need a harmonizing note added to the chord think extensions, i.e. find an extension that adds the note you need. Keep in mind the movement - don't destroy the movement by relying upon just a harmonizing chord. It's a balancing act. http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...+a+melody+line

Here is a chart that helps find a chord that will harmonize a specific melody note. I listed the C scale, however the Roman numbers are generic, i.e. 1st degree of any scale the I, IV vi or ii7 will contain a harmonizing note in the chord. Use the one that fits best.

C Scale melody notes Try these chords
1st degree C.....I (CEG).… IV (FAC).. vi .(ACE).. ii7 (DFAC)
2nd degree D.....V (GBD).. ii7 (DFAC).iii7(EGBD)
3rd degree E.....I (CEG)…. vi..(ACE)….iii (EGB)
4th degree F....IV (FAC)…. ii..(DFA)...V7 (GBDF)
5th degree G.....V (GBD).. I...(CEG)...iii (EGB)
6th degree A....IV (FAC)... ii..(DFA)…..vi (ACE)
7th degree B....V7 (GBDF).iii.(EGB)


Back-Cycling then enters into the picture. In a nut shell back-cycling is the circle of 5ths, 4th, whatever you call it, laid out in a straight line. Need to fill a void look at what chord leads to the chord after the void. Insert it. Whether you insert it as a major, minor, diminished, extended, augmented etc. depends on what works best - your choice - remember it should harmonize the melody used over it, and not distort the chord movement. If a D major works, use it, however, if Dm works better use it and if Dmaj7 would work even better use that. http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...hp/t-8383.html If back-cycling is not yet in your bag of tricks I think this one thing would help the most.

IMO these three items should start your journey, is there more, of course. If you find something of interest, share.

Now the art of composing uses these basic concepts, however, goes beyond what I've listed.

Have fun.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 11-09-2009 at 01:37 PM.
  #4  
Old 11-09-2009, 01:38 PM
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Thanks for the replies.

MalcolmAmos- I do appreciate the info, but Im looking for real life examples of all of that information. Most stuff is simple I-V. And when its not. it seems pretty off the charts imo.

The Wiki article was helpful. If you go down to the part titled ((Shang-a-lang-lang (Oo-ee-oo-ee))) It talks about how the I-vi-ii-V or I-vi-IV-V is used a bunch in the 50's and gives examples of when and where. But i already knew most of that. Thats a common example.

Is it up the individual person to find their own patterns in harmony?

Has anyone gathered many examples like the one above?
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPierson View Post
Is it up the individual person to find their own patterns in harmony?

Has anyone gathered many examples like the one above?
Most of us rely on those that came before us, so most of what we do is based upon "patterns" that someone came up with long ago.

What I gave you are the rules of harmonization. Which is pretty simple really. The melody note and the chord should share at least one note. If they do they harmonize. Up to you which note and chord you use.

By patterns - what are you looking for?

If you are talking about cookie cutter chord progressions.
The ole basic I IV V I --- I vi IV V I ----- I vi ii V I have furnished the harmony for thousands of songs.

Glad to help, but you will have to be a little more specific.

I think if you will pull up some fake chord sheet music on songs you like and analyze the progression they used, that should answer your question. I think what you find will be the ole basic stuff. The I IV V chords have every note in the scale, thus, you can get as simple or as complicated as you want with just those three chords. If you want to get more complicated re-read back-cycling.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 11-09-2009 at 02:06 PM.
  #6  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:02 PM
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Im looking for examples of when the I-vi-IV-V was used in prominent reggae jams, hit pop songs, was changed and manipulated in jazz, and when it started in classical music.


Just in depth information on specific cadences, chord progressions, and composition techniques.

Looking for more of a resource then a theory lesson.
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:42 PM
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The book Writing Music for Hit Songs by Jai Josephs is an excellent overview of, well, writing music for songs (using hits as examples) - albeit from a "middle age pop/rock" perspective, though it does have a lot of theory, it's a lot of practical hands-on theory and with lots of examples.

Tunesmith is also a great book, though I found some logical gaps from a pure theory point of view.

I don't know of any book that breaks down chord progressions by genre/decade. I got a really bad book called Money Chords that breaks down chord progressions by popular songs, going back decades, but all you really learn from it is that songwriters have been using the same chord progressions for decades, if not centuries. You look up "ii, V, I" and it'll give you dozens of pages of songs that feature that chord progression, but also dozens of examples of "IV, vi, I" or any other chord progression you could imagine.

You seem to be making two requests - one to "explain composition deeply" and another to describe chord progressions of different eras & styles.

I suspect - and this is just my gut instinct talking here - that you're coming from the same position as many intermediate players - on the one hand, you know there are rules and conventions, and that the great songwriters know many of them, and on the other, that you basically have an infinite choice of things you could do. So you're looking to narrow down the infinite choice to things that make sense.

A lot of this comes with time & listening to & learning as many songs as you can - on guitar as well as bass.

Other than that, I'm not really sure where the line is between "compositional techniques" and "theory" - you should check out the first book, it's as practical a book on songwriting as I've ever read.
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2009, 12:32 AM
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You might want to check out these links:
http://www.amazon.com/Chord-Progress..._bxgy_b_text_b
http://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-So..._bxgy_b_text_c
http://www.jazzstandards.com/compositions/index.htm

Last edited by Stumbo : 11-10-2009 at 12:42 AM.
  #9  
Old 11-10-2009, 01:17 AM
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This is Exactly what i was looking for.

Thanks everyone.
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