Looking for old Jeff Berlin BP Article

[kurkomat]

Hi All-

I'm looking for an old article from Jeff Berlin in his column in Bass Player in the late 1990s. The article is called "The Case Against Key Centers." I'd really like to get my hands on it. If anyone has a copy please let me know. Thanks!

Matt

[Antman3820]

You got PM

[thephilosopher]

I'd like it as well.

[Groovy Bastard]

Could you summarize the main points from the article? Thanks in advance.

[kurkomat]

Well I haven't gotten my hands on it quite yet but if I do I'll be happy to summarize here. As I recall Jeff offered some salient points as to why a soloist should outline each chord as it's own tonality, requiring it's own scale, etc. I.e if you see a II / V / I in the Cmaj you would play D-7, G7, Cmaj when soloing. The opposing view would be to look for a key center (C Ionian) and just play in that mode over all three chords.

I actually studied with Jeff at the Players school but that was several years ago and I'd love to remember what his reasoning was for avoiding key centers. I've since been fortunate to take a lesson from Adam Levy (guitarist for Norah Jones) and he's all about key centers. His solos are incredible, so I'm wondering what's the correct time and place to use them!

Matt

[Antman3820]

It is Bassplayer's July 1996 issue..........

[kurkomat]

Ok, I got a hold of the article- thanks to those who helped me out!

Essentially Jeff is saying that music is often unpredictable and involves chords that do not fall within key centers. As a result if you only know how to solo using the key center methodology you will be hosed when someone puts a chart in front of you with chords outside of the key center. I agree with him when working through most jazz tunes. Where I disagree would be on something like rhythm changes. You can't tell me those horn players are thinking "Bb maj7, G-7, C-7, F7 etc." as they're hauling by at 250bpm. They're playing in Bb maj 7 for the whole "A" part of the tune. That's why I think so many horn players like rhythm changes-- they're relatively easy to blow over.

Where I think key centers work well are in pop music, where the chords are typically I / IV / V , etc and melodies are often diatonic. Adam Levy's advice to me was roughly "a vocalist wouldn't try to force a melody into each individual chord, so you shouldn't either. Try to make your solos as lyrical as the melody is."

So that's where I'm at on this- when playing most jazz tunes it's important to treat each chord as it's own entity. This is clearly harder to do than using key centers but will best prepare you to be able to handle all musical situations. Key centers, on the other hand, do have a place in simpler music where making lyrical lines sound not dis-jointed is at a premium.

thanks

Matt

[WillBuckingham]

Listen to Charlie Parker, Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane, or any great horn player and you will absolutely hear them work through each and every chord. Using scales that line up with "key centers" is a helpful way for beginners to get blowin' passable solos, but not a good path towards meaningful improvisation.

[kaybass1952]

Carol Kaye is also a strong advocate of outlining the chords, rather than using scales for key centers.

[Psychicpet]

I would have to agree with Mr. Levy and Mr.Coltrane
Levy's right with the lyrical thing but at the same time, Trane knew his stuff inside out so that although he might have been outlining the chords of each change he knew enough to not have to start in root position of each chord and I think that sometimes that's maybe where we get hung up when we think of outlining each individual chord, using inversions to make nice scalar lines ,etc.

...... but then again the above reasoning could be attributed to St. Arbuck's House roast

[Psychicpet]

then again, I'm a huge advocate of closing one's eyes and just givin 'er with ears wide open when it comes time to solo

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by kurkomat

Ok, I got a hold of the article- thanks to those who helped me out!

Essentially Jeff is saying that music is often unpredictable and involves chords that do not fall within key centers. As a result if you only know how to solo using the key center methodology you will be hosed when someone puts a chart in front of you with chords outside of the key center. I agree with him when working through most jazz tunes. Where I disagree would be on something like rhythm changes. You can't tell me those horn players are thinking "Bb maj7, G-7, C-7, F7 etc." as they're hauling by at 250bpm. They're playing in Bb maj 7 for the whole "A" part of the tune. That's why I think so many horn players like rhythm changes-- they're relatively easy to blow over.

Where I think key centers work well are in pop music, where the chords are typically I / IV / V , etc and melodies are often diatonic. Adam Levy's advice to me was roughly "a vocalist wouldn't try to force a melody into each individual chord, so you shouldn't either. Try to make your solos as lyrical as the melody is."

So that's where I'm at on this- when playing most jazz tunes it's important to treat each chord as it's own entity. This is clearly harder to do than using key centers but will best prepare you to be able to handle all musical situations. Key centers, on the other hand, do have a place in simpler music where making lyrical lines sound not dis-jointed is at a premium.

thanks

Matt

You should be able to hit every chord change and should practice this but just b/c you can do doesn't mean that you have to play this way all the time. But having that ability gives you more options. You should also be able to play the key centers. I'm sure JB can do both and more. As for horn players playing fast, well they may or may not be thinking of each change but many are thinking about hitting specific chord tones. The better ones that I have played with don't think about the changes anymore when they solo but you have to realize that they practiced these so much that they no longer think about it. They just play.

If you're playing a key center and there's a chord that is not in that key center, guess what? The key center changed. You either hit it or missed it. When you come to some chords that are not in a key center, look at them and figure out what notes are different for that chord and the previous key center. Many times it will be just a one or two note difference. If that is so, then highlight those particular notes (hint: most likely the 3rds and 7ths).

I believe it was Charlie Parker that said something like learn everything and then forget it. But many people try to skip the learn everything part of it.

[Gyoon]

This is my personal opinion, but I can always tell when a soloist is thinking in a key centre. It has a certain "unfocused" sound to it. I don't doubt for a second, though, that someone like Adam Levy can make it work.

The problem with thinking just in a key centre is that not every note in a key is going to work with every chord that is derived from that key. It's good to know that. say, Bb, Cm, Dm, Eb, F, Gm, Am7b5 all come from Bb major scale and therefore the Bb major scale MUST work. But you have to treat each chord differently. F mixolydian is different from Bb. The notes line up differently when you play them.

For Bb major, the chord tones lfor the Bb chord ine up on the strong parts of the beat. If you played the same Bb Major scale for F7, the chord tones for F7 would be on the up beats, for the most part.

Is this what Jeff Berlin was talking about?

Glenn

[SullyB]

OKAY, I AM NEW SO PLEASE TAKE IT EASY ON ME. IS A KEY CENTER THE SAME THING AS THE KEY OF THE PIECE? AND IF ONE WAS NOT USING KEY CENTERS TO SOLO, WOULD THAT MEAN THAT FOR A I/IV/V PROGRESSION IN C THAT I WOULD PLAY IONIAN OVER THE C CHORD, LYDIAN OVER THE F CHORD, AND MIXOLYDIAN OVER THE G CHORD? OR IF THE CHANGE IS II/I/V THAT WOULD BE A DORIAN/IONIAN/MIXOLYDIAN?

CONFUSED

THANKS

[steveb98]

Originally Posted by SullyB

OKAY, I AM NEW SO PLEASE TAKE IT EASY ON ME. IS A KEY CENTER THE SAME THING AS THE KEY OF THE PIECE? AND IF ONE WAS NOT USING KEY CENTERS TO SOLO, WOULD THAT MEAN THAT FOR A I/IV/V PROGRESSION IN C THAT I WOULD PLAY IONIAN OVER THE C CHORD, LYDIAN OVER THE F CHORD, AND MIXOLYDIAN OVER THE G CHORD? OR IF THE CHANGE IS II/I/V THAT WOULD BE A DORIAN/IONIAN/MIXOLYDIAN?

CONFUSED

THANKS

The key of the song is only the starting key. Jazz and other styles of music are changing keys during the song. The key center is the current key and determined easiest by looking at the the chords being played, especially dominant chords. So like the first few bars of All the Things You Are.... Fmi7 | Bbmi7 | Eb7 | Abma7 | Dbma7 | G7 | Cma7 | Cma7

Eb7 is the V of Ab and that is the starting key of the song. It is a Vi, II, V, I, IV Now there is a G7 doesn't fit key of Ab, but look at the next chord Cma7. G7 is the V of C. The G7 is resolving down to C and C is now the key center of the song. Get the idea. You need to look at the next chord(s) to figure out the current key center.

Yes there are things like secondary dominants, but you'll learn to spot those. They are used mainly in Blues and Gospel. Just remember if in doubt on a dominant chord just use the Lydian b7 scale, it works for all dominants.

Hope this helps.

[SullyB]

COOL. THANKS FOR THE INFO. I NEED TO FIND A TEACHER, BUT I LIVE ON GUAM AND THAT SORT OF LIMITS MY OPTIONS, YA KNOW? I'LL KEEP LOOKING. THANKS AGAIN.

~WILL