Lost in a "Jam"

[Waterpilot]

I’ve been playing about a year and pretty much everyone I’ve ever talked to or read here on TB says to join a band. So that’s what I’ve started to do.

Last night was my audition. Originally when I contacted them I asked for some songs that I’d be required to know for the audition to see if it was something I could even do. Long story short. There weren’t any. It was a jam. There are just two of them, drummer and guitarist. The idea is to show up and see what happens...

Since I am learning I really like to be as prepared as possible, and had no idea how to prepare, but went anyway, insuring they knew how new I was (which they were fine with), as I didn’t have anything to lose...

This was the first time I’ve ever played with anyone before and had a lot of fun. But for the most part was completely lost, but I can see how fast I will improve trying to play this way.

So here’s where I’m going with this... They invited me back next Monday to do it again. The problem (one of many) is that I’m not exactly sure what I should be concentrating on.

Should I be trying to follow the guitar?

Should I just make up a bass line and have the guitar do so something over top of me?

Everything is happening so fast that by the time I see where the guitarists hand is, process it, then try and get there he’s already somewhere else...

Any recommendations on preparing for something like this?

[rpsands]

Rule #1 of a live jam: If you don't know (or have some idea of) what to play, don't play.

If you're just practicing I'd still listen to the progression once through so you can pick out the tones.

Following that it really depends on the approach. I tend to like a progression approach for jamming but some guys just jam in a key.

With just one guitarist my preference is to play a lot and hold down the rhythm. Groove with the drummer. Try to follow the guitar player's chord changes.

Rule #2: Ask the guitar player to play the same thing 4-8 times before changing structure, so you can get an idea of what's going on. If there's a progression and he knows what it's going to be he should be able to tell you: "We're doing one bar of E, one bar of C#, half bar of B, half bar of A, one bar of E an octave up, repeat." Or "12 bar in B" or whatever.

Repeating the same phrasing for a while lets you build up your changes and outline chord tones. You should be able to pick out what chord he's playing and experiment to see what chords help transition to the next chord, etc.

I am a huge fan of the chromatic approach to changes for jams, but you can use all sorts of approaches.

[MalcolmAmos]

Jamming pop, rock, country and blues. Assume its Major. Assume a I IV V I will work.

I'm sure they call out the key, if not they should. Assume a I IV V and watch the guitars hands - change chords when he does. All roots are fine.

If you get lost revert to the tonic I chord playing root, root, root, root and lay down a steady beat.

Have fun. It's not rocket science.

[groooooove]

jamming is not an exact science.

some jams have specific chords that cycle, like a jazz chart. other jams, like a gratefull dead jam for example, theyll just be in whatever key, and phill can just wander about playing lines/grooves within that key. that, is what you need to be able to do. wich unfourtunately does require a bit of a music theory understanding. but not a whole lot- basic 5-note scales will get you a long way.

[Waterpilot]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Have fun. It's not rocket science.

There is so much to learn. Man, sometimes it feels like it is...

Originally Posted by groooooove

jamming is not an exact science.

wich unfourtunately does require a bit of a music theory understanding. but not a whole lot- basic 5-note scales will get you a long way.

Yeah it seems as if I'm in over head.

[Shakin-Slim]

Ask for the key. Just go with it. Use all the notes in that key and have fun. If you want to check out some solely improvised jams check out The Moon Dogs on facebook, if you have facebook All songs are using a minor blues scale, just changing key and there is absolutely no thought before each song starts.

[Shakin-Slim]

I find a blues scale is so easy to jam with, learn that if you don't know it! root, flat 3, 4, flat 5, 5, flat 7, 8. Do a 12 bar blues thing, once you have mastered that it's the same deal only different chord changes. And nothing sounds cooler than a blues scale

[Bruce Lindfield]

I don't want to sound negative, but honestly - nothing sounds as boring as a Blues Scale!

OK - I know we're talking about beginners here - but there are so many other things you can play.

When I started beginners Jazz classes - the tutor said - there is a great temptation to play the Blues Scales - but if you want to start learning at all - then avoid this temptation at all costs!

I can remember being 16 and guitarists endlessly running this kind of thing and it put me off the Blues for a long time - it's not music ! - it took me decades to come back to the Blues and enjoy it again.

[VinKreepo]

You need to find a balance between form and creativity. Right now you are determined and creative, but you may (or may not) lack the form. This link...

http://www.vt2000.com/basswork/chords/index.htm

is the site I send to all bassists who need to get some solid theory under their belt. It's a good bit of reading , but it's the easiest read on theory that I've found. In that link you're going to feel like you are being closed into a box as to what you can do in a song. It will look very scientific and just plain boring. But the purpose of learn the rules is to know when you can break them. Be creative. If a note isn't in the key but sounds good, don't worry about it. If a note is in the key but sounds bad, don't play it. Don't make it complicated.

I can read your post and see what I was like at the start of last fall semester. I had been playing for one year, got into a band, and felt like I sucked. I found that site and studied the crap out of it. I also looked up the Circle of Fifths. I practiced till my fingers got blisters. I got much better and even learned some other instruments. Now I'm a music major at my college, about to get into a band and start gigging (hopefully next week if our schedules work), and enjoying bass much more than before.

And to answer your question... usually bassist or guitarist picks a progression. The drummer finds a beat, and the bassist matches the rhythm of the drums while playing with the chords changes of the guitarist. And once you know that theory, you can start accenting the melodies and solos of the guitarist and the vocals when they come -- all while staying connected with the drummer lol. It's tough, but you can do it.

You keep up this attitude and you'll go far man. You definitely got it in you.

[cassanova]

Ask for the key/progression and listen to what the drummer is doing.

If your creative juices aren't flowing then play nothing but the root notes of the progression until you find your groove.

[Shakin-Slim]

I sure hope 'blues isn't music' is a sarcastic remark. It definitely depends on how its played. Some guitarist trying to play like Jimi when they're a beginner is annoying but you can't say that with some good John Lee Hooker rhythms some solid groove with the blues scale is far from boring.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Shakin-Slim

I sure hope 'blues isn't music' is a sarcastic remark. .

That's not what I said! What I was saying was that a load of guitarists running Blues scales with no musical thought or reference, wasn't music!!

So - when I was 16 I got thoroughly fed up of going to jams where this happened and it put me off Blues for decades. So - whenever I met other musicians and they said - let's jam on the Blues - I ran a mile!! Or rather, I made up excuses why I had to be elsewhere!

When I was a bit older and started to play Jazz - only then did I re-discover how, without 16 year-old guitarists - the Blues can actually be inspiring!

[Shakin-Slim]

I understand now and agree whole heartedly. As much as I love jazz in my bones, I still love some dirty blues, not jazz blues, to jive to. Some Son House or the king Buddy Guy!

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

And to answer your question... usually bassist or guitarist picks a progression. The drummer finds a beat, and the bassist matches the rhythm of the drums while playing with the chords changes of the guitarist. And once you know that theory, you can start accenting the melodies and solos of the guitarist and the vocals when they come -- all while staying connected with the drummer lol. It's tough, but you can do it.

Yes!!!!!!!! Paste that on the wall. One other thing I was told; "If your head is not bobbing your groove is not grooving."

[Tricia]

Originally Posted by Waterpilot

There is so much to learn. Man, sometimes it feels like it is...




Yeah it seems as if I'm in over head.

Don't give up. You will get better and better. The most important thing is to keep trying.
I have a hard time jamming too. I like playing songs better, but it's good experience, and it will be fun in the end.

[Waterpilot]

Thanks to all who have responded so far! Everyone of you have said something that has hit home with me. All fantastic advice and really appreciated!

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

You need to find a balance between form and creativity. Right now you are determined and creative, but you may (or may not) lack the form. This link...

http://www.vt2000.com/basswork/chords/index.htm

Man, I like that link and well put!

[Waterpilot]

Originally Posted by Tricia

Don't give up. You will get better and better. The most important thing is to keep trying.
I have a hard time jamming too. I like playing songs better, but it's good experience, and it will be fun in the end.

It's an interesting way to try and learn that's for sure, and takes me out of my comfort zone. With I song I get it. But with a free flow of musical ideas on the fly, and moving so quickly, I was getting frustrated with myself. Not giving up though!

[blockinlay]

Did you get an idea of where these guys are coming from? If so, teach yourself as many songs, or bass lines as you can that you think they might dig on to bring into the next jam. Write them down on paper so you remember. Show them where the changes are.

[RED5]

Originally Posted by Waterpilot

There is so much to learn. Man, sometimes it feels like it is...




Yeah it seems as if I'm in over head.

You're on the right track,stay at it,go and watch some jams,(Open mics round here) and look where you might be able to fit in before you jump

[thombo]

Waterpiloet- what kind of music are you aiming to play?