Major & Minor Scales read up if you dont know them!!!

[jazzbo]

I most certainly could be wrong, as I'm not familiar with much of popular music; however, my main point really is that when beginning an understanding of music theory, after focusing on your major, minor, and perhaps, pentatonic scales, it is far more important, in my mind, to begin an analysis of harmonic function, and harmony in general, then it is to begin some desire to learn modes. While you would never want to limit your musical vocabulary, in any genre, it's putting the cart before the horse in my mind, as how do you know how to apply locrian, when you still don't understand harmony?

[Richard Lindsey]

I agree wholeheartedly about the importance of harmony and harmonic function. I guess I don't see why modes should necessarily come after, or separate from, that--or indeed why they need to be separated from major, minor, and pentatonic scales. After all, a scale is a mode is a scale. And you can't use even a major scale without some understanding of harmony either, so modes aren't radically different in that regard.

[ConU]

Yes!!Everything is "connected".This seems to be the universal misconception,and not enough teachers address it,from the outset with new students...harmony and melody(chords and scales)"combine" to make music.Focusing on one without the other makes no sense.

[daveze]

Thats some cool theory.

Just 2 things:

-Could you please tell me which minor goes with the major, cause I keep asking and forgeting the answer.

-How do modes work, I don't get them. I've had a go at learning the theory but I can't figure out how they are applicable, so I get bored and don't finish learning. An endless cycle, courtesy of a short att...

If my questions are answered elsewhere in the forum, I apologise; I'm new here.

Keep up the good work,
Josh D

[moley]

Originally posted by daveze
Thats some cool theory.

Just 2 things:

-Could you please tell me which minor goes with the major, cause I keep asking and forgeting the answer.

If you're talking about relative minors - then the rule is that the relative minor is a minor 3rd below the major. A minor 3rd being 3 semitones (half-steps). So, the relative minor of C Major is A Minor. C to B to Bb to A = 3 semitones.

-How do modes work, I don't get them. I've had a go at learning the theory but I can't figure out how they are applicable, so I get bored and don't finish learning. An endless cycle, courtesy of a short att...

Look at Jazzbo's theory lesson, there's a link to it earlier in this thread.

Basically, the modes of the major scale are scales formed by playing the major scale starting from different degrees of the scale.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally posted by moley


Basically, the modes of the major scale are scales formed by playing the major scale starting from different degrees of the scale.

Well ... kinda but not really. Basically they're tonalities, or modalities, of their own. They don't have to have any connection with "standard" major or minor. They can be *derived* from the major scale, and they occur naturally in major harmony, but they're really their own beast.

[moley]

Originally posted by Richard Lindsey


Well ... kinda but not really. Basically they're tonalities, or modalities, of their own. They don't have to have any connection with "standard" major or minor. They can be *derived* from the major scale, and they occur naturally in major harmony, but they're really their own beast.

That's exactly what I meant, Richard.

When I said they are formed by playing the major scale starting from different degrees of the scale, that is exactly what I meant - they're derived from the major scale. I didn't say they had to have any connection with the standard major or minor.




ARGH@People not reading me right!!! It happens to much, it pisses me off!!

EDIT: Sorry, just not having a good day today.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally posted by moley


That's exactly what I meant, Richard.

When I said they are formed by playing the major scale starting from different degrees of the scale, that is exactly what I meant - they're derived from the major scale. I didn't say they had to have any connection with the standard major or minor.




ARGH@People not reading me right!!! It happens to much, it pisses me off!!

EDIT: Sorry, just not having a good day today.

No sweat. Everybody has those days. From your usual posts, I probably should have figured that's what you meant anyway.

[cassanova]

Originally posted by jazzbo
then it is to begin some desire to learn modes. While you would never want to limit your musical vocabulary, in any genre, it's putting the cart before the horse in my mind, as how do you know how to apply locrian, when you still don't understand harmony?

Ya know Ive got issues with the modes myself. I know majors, the 3 variations of the minors, pentatonics, arpeggios, etc. But I never really put much empahsis on the modes and when to apply them. I see a set of charts major & minor changes in them, My brain just knows what notes/intervals I have to/can flatten to make that particular set work without me sayin "ok, ill play this one in locrian, dorian, mixolydian, aeolian, etc.

Its never bit me in the ass yet. One day it might, I dunno. But is knowing mode really that important as it would be to simply knowing majors, all the variantions of the minors and how to apply them?

[ConU]

Originally posted by cassanova


But is knowing mode really that important as it would be to simply knowing majors, all the variantions of the minors and how to apply them?

It's most important to know(fluently)what different types of chords those scales can produce,get a handle on that and you'll immediately demystify this mode thing.Everything is connected in music,you can't decide what to learn and what not to learn or you never put all the pieces together.

[cassanova]

Originally posted by ConU


It's most important to know(fluently)what different types of chords those scales can produce,get a handle on that and you'll immediately demystify this mode thing.Everything is connected in music,you can't decide what to learn and what not to learn or you never put all the pieces together.

Im workin on somethin similar if not the same thing you suggested with the scales and chords they form up. Stuff like why a B bass works over a Chord. I forget exactly what its propor term is called but at least have some knowledge of why it works.

I know everythings connected and its just a matter of connecting all the dots to put it all together. I wasnt implying that one didnt need or shouldnt learn the modes..

If I never put all the pieces together thats ok with me. I dont believe one needs to know every aspect of theory to be a good musician. It just speeds up the process IMO.

[ConU]

Originally posted by cassanova





If I never put all the pieces together thats ok with me. I dont believe one needs to know every aspect of theory to be a good musician. It just speeds up the process IMO.

Man,I have a BA in music,and a ton'o'experience and I'm not even close to putting all the pieces together...that's the fun part,you keep learning with this music thing,stop learning and it ain't so much fun anymore
(just don't look at modes as something foreign to what you already know,they're right there in front of you)

[lneal]

Originally posted by jazzbowl
I've thought about that, except I think I would rather discuss chord function.

I agree that understanding this is very important. Understanding chord structure and function is, IMO vital to being musical. And if you can get to the point where you can "hear" the type of chord being played then you are way ahead of the game. If someone sits down at a piano and plays, say, an Am7 chord, could you hear that that's what it is without looking at the piano? If you can, and you know your scales, then you can plug in a proper scale over it without even thinking. Then your brain becomes a tool instead of a crutch. I think chord structure is one of the most important things you can learn.

Hope that didn't get too far off topic!