Major vs. Minor Scale?

[rydin4lifebass]

I’m working through arpeggios and chords with my instructor and last night we talked about the major scales and the relative minor scales. He explained that the relative minor scale of a C major is A minor. Both of these have the same notes, the chords are the same (notes anyway) but whether it’s a major or minor chord is different.
Can someone elaborate on what the point of this is and why its important. What’s the point of calling ACE two different things in two different scales if they’re the same?

CEG (I, major)
DFA (ii, minor)
EGB (iii, minor)
FAC (IV, major)
GBD (V, major)
ACE (vi, minor)
BDF (vii diminished)

In A minor we have
ACE (i, minor)
BDF (ii, diminished)
CEG (III major)
DFA (iv, minor)
EGB (v, minor)
FAC (VI, Major)
GBD (VII, Major)

[GOV]

the root note is the only change.

[Youngspanion]

ACE is an Am chord in both scales. It is the 6th degree in the Major scale and its the 1st degree in the minor scale.

The Major scale 6th degree is the relative minor.
REGARDLESS OF THE KEY.

Thats about all I know. I don't know if there is any more to it than that.

[rydin4lifebass]

Originally Posted by GOV

the root note is the only change.

I guess its all "terminology"..they chords are the same (major, minor, or diminished)...so if I'm playing an A chord in A minor or C major...same notes, just different position within the scale...I tend to over think things...

[HolmeBass]

The point of Am being a I chord in Am and a VI chord in C major is that it will function differently harmonically in those two different, albeit related keys. In Am it will be the root, the tonic, the I chord- it will be "home", where all resolutions eventually want to go. In C major it is not the tonic, it won't be home for all resolutions, etc., it will function as the IV chord.

So although Am is always exactly Am, it's the other chords with it in the piece of music, the chords before and after it, that provide context for the harmonic function of Am in a particular piece of music.

[littlepope]

What changes and the differences are the key tonal center of the music piece.
Generally minor keys are associated to be sad or melancoly. Major keys are to be happier and uplifting. Also dominant seventh based key songs are associated as being funky or funk.

Example: Am7-Dm7-G7-C sounds kinda downbeat.
Example: CM7-FM7-G7-Dm7 sounds kinda happy.
Example: C6/9-FM9-Dm7-G6/7 sounds kinda jazzy/funk.

But all these notes are from C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C octave scale you already know. It is just like communication. Many ways to do it but you must think of an idea to get across first.

When you are sitting around one day try extended chords. The 13's, 11's. Dom7#9, 6add7, 6add9, sus9.
Latter you can try passing-tone-chords. Or the 5th chord degree of the 5th chord.

What ever you do, have fun.

[AFRO]

Let me preface this with I am still learning..

Reltive keys utilize the same notes and thus have the same key signature. Yet they have very different sounding feels to them. play the major scale, then play the relative minor. then play the major arppegios, and then the minor arppegios. play them from 1st scale degree to last, and last degre to first. then try first/second, first/third, first/fourth etc..you should hear the subtle differences with the intervals. the major intervals are different from the minor ones in toneality

then

look at your chart closely.
you will find that the notes in the Capital Roman Numerals are the same for both major and minor in relative keys... (as are the minor chords) only not in the same scale degree. which is a big factor.

ex. CEG is major (I) chord, but it is the (III) in the minor chord voice. same notes but in a different scale degree.

FAC is (IV) 5th scale degree for Major and it is also (VI) 6th degree of the relative minor scale.
as is the diminished...BDF (vii) in Major and (ii) in minor.


it has to do with which scale degree it being used. the interval of the scale degree will help to shape the sound you wish to use. some scale degrees have tensions/qualities that are either wanted or frowned apon depending on your goal for the music/song.

I think..(still trying to get the hang of this myself)

hopefully some others in the know will help out more the myself.. (calling Malcom Amos...)

[smeet]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

I guess its all "terminology"..they chords are the same (major, minor, or diminished)...so if I'm playing an A chord in A minor or C major...same notes, just different position within the scale...I tend to over think things...

It's not just terminology. The notes and chords are the same, yes. But play a song in C major, then play a song in A minor. They sound different, right? That's really what it's about.

[littlepope]

whether u know it or not u are getting it!!

[rydin4lifebass]

I guess I'm confused why they would sound the same...if I play ACE then FAC then GBD...thats the same notes, so how does that sound any different?

I understand that if I play I-IV-V in a major scale, its different than i-iv-v in a minor key because its totally differnet notes/chords.

But I just don't get why playing a song in C major would sound different in A minor...
in th example below, Am7 - Dm7 - G7 - C would be i-iv-VII-III in Am

CM7 - FM7 - G7 - Dm7 would be I-IV-V-ii in CM

So obviously those will sound different but does it matter if I play I - IV - V in CMajor versus III - VI - VII in Aminor?..thats the same exact thing right?

[251]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

I’m working through arpeggios and chords with my instructor and last night we talked about the major scales and the relative minor scales. He explained that the relative minor scale of a C major is A minor. Both of these have the same notes, the chords are the same (notes anyway) but whether it’s a major or minor chord is different.
Can someone elaborate on what the point of this is and why its important. What’s the point of calling ACE two different things in two different scales if they’re the same?

CEG (I, major)
DFA (ii, minor)
EGB (iii, minor)
FAC (IV, major)
GBD (V, major)
ACE (vi, minor)
BDF (vii diminished)

In A minor we have
ACE (i, minor)
BDF (ii, diminished)
CEG (III major)
DFA (iv, minor)
EGB (v, minor)
FAC (VI, Major)
GBD (VII, Major)

It sounds like you have the good sense to look at these relationships with a tutor. Give the current lesson your full attention. There is more to come & it is best to learn each piece to the best of your ability. The purpose & uses will become clearer with time. You are learning a versatile language called 'Music'. You speak it with your instrument. Like other languages, there is more than 1 way to say the same thing. Understanding why it is this way is not so useful. Knowing that saying "gimme that" brings a different result than "May I have that please?" can be real useful. 8-)

[rydin4lifebass]

I understand that a I-IV-V in a major will sound much different than a i-iv-v in a minor scale because its a completly different set of chords/notes.

But wouldn't a C-F-G progression which is I-IV-V in CMajor sound exactly the same as a III-VI-VII progression in Aminor?

When people say a song will sound "sadder" in a minor, are they saying minor scale or minor chord?

[mambo4]

little pope's answer is how I look at it.
Yes the chords and notes of C major and Aminor(natural) are Identical, and on this strict and ultimate sense it makes no difference what you call it.

But, whether the key center is a C major or A minor is a fairly crucial piece of information to have, especially if you are going to improvise or write more parts.

Most musicians will think in terms of a I-IV-V or a ii-V-I cadence when given a key center.
If you say C major they'll be expecting a lot of action around the chords C maj, F maj, Dmin, and G7.
If you say Aminor then Amin, Dmin, B dim and Emin (or E7)

Once you get into the harmonic minor scale and chords
(where that E7 chord comes from), the differences will become more clear.

In short it's about clearly communicating your intent to other musicians.

[PocketGroove82]

If you want to know about sounds, asking abstract questions to bass players online isn't going to help you bro. Sit down at a piano. Play the sounds. Hear them for yourself. All your questions will be answered.

[teleharmonium]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

I understand that a I-IV-V in a major will sound much different than a i-iv-v in a minor scale because its a completly different set of chords/notes.

But wouldn't a C-F-G progression which is I-IV-V in CMajor sound exactly the same as a III-VI-VII progression in Aminor?

The answer has to do with the larger context and what we call functional harmony.

Yes, if nothing else is going on beside the chords, and nothing is played before or after them, those chords do sound the same. But - you wouldn't hear them as starting on the third of a key that hasn't been previously outlined; if there's no context, those chords are going to be heard as a I-IV-V.

If the key (or tonal center as the case may be) has been established as A, then, the effective chord progression is going to have the i before those chords. If those three chords are in A but it just hasn't gotten there yet - which would be a little unusual, but possible - then it's still going to resolve to that i. Either way, hearing them in the context of a minor home chord makes them sound different and get used differently.

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

When people say a song will sound "sadder" in a minor, are they saying minor scale or minor chord?

That's a subjective thing, but you could say it pretty much the same way about a minor scale, chord, key, or a minor section of a larger chord progression which is otherwise in some other tonality. Just the combination of the root and minor third is what creates the essential minor sound, and it's in all of those things.

[rydin4lifebass]

Originally Posted by mambo4

little pope's answer is how I look at it.
Yes the chords and notes of C major and Aminor(natural) are Identical, and on this strict and ultimate sense it makes no difference what you call it.

But, whether the key center is a C major or A minor is a fairly crucial piece of information to have, especially if you are going to improvise or write more parts.

Most musicians will think in terms of a I-IV-V or a ii-V-I cadence when given a key center.
If you say C major they'll be expecting a lot of action around the chords C maj, F maj, Dmin, and G7.
If you say Aminor then Amin, Dmin, B dim and Emin (or E7)

Once you get into the harmonic minor scale and chords
(where that E7 chord comes from), the differences will become more clear.

In short it's about clearly communicating your intent to other musicians.

that helps...so if somone were to say, this is a 12-bar blues in C Major..my I-IV-V would be CM-FM-GM, but a 12 bar blues in a A minor would still be I-IV-V (in this case i-iv-v) and would be Am-Dm-Em ?

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

that helps...so if somone were to say, this is a 12-bar blues in C Major..my I-IV-V would be CM-FM-GM, but a 12 bar blues in a A minor would still be I-IV-V (in this case i-iv-v) and would be Am-Dm-Em ?

Exactly* -I wish I'd thought of C maj vs A min blues as an example.


(* well, C major blues would usually be dominant chords not major triads : C7 - F7 - G7
...and A minor blues would likely bump that E min to an E7 as well.
But that's more to do with stylistic conventions and tradition, less to do with western harmonic theory.)

[rydin4lifebass]

makes more sense now, if I think of it in terms of the blues example...played by C-F-G versus the A-D-E and definitly see the difference...is there a major scale that contains the Am-Dm-Em chords or only Aminor?

[Febs]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

makes more sense now, if I think of it in terms of the blues example...played by C-F-G versus the A-D-E and definitly see the difference...is there a major scale that contains the Am-Dm-Em chords or only Aminor?

C Major.

[rydin4lifebass]

Originally Posted by Febs

C Major.

but in CMajor they're Major chords, not minor ... so kinda different