Making the complicated simple?

[VincentSalizeri]

Now, this isn't another thread about the beauty of simple lines, though I do like the vibe that a sparse line gives. This is something that I was reminded of while looking at the Robert DeLeo thread. At first glance, his lines don't seem like too much, but there's a lot going on there when you really look at it. So what I'm wondering is, do any of you make deceptively simple lines, ones that are in fact, really busy, but sound so much simpler than they actually are?

[mambo4]

Not sure exactly what you are describing by "sound so much simpler than they actually are"...

In my experience, every time I thought a particular style of bass line was really simple, on exploration it turned out to be much more complex... generally in a rhythmic sense.
Simple note choices like a 1-5-8 can be expressed in a limitless variety of rhythms, articulations, dynamics and feels. In that sense, many "simple" bass lines are in fact more complex than at first may be apparent.

[Infrasonik B.]

make deceptively simple lines, ones that are in fact, really busy, but sound so much simpler than they actually are

read my sig, I think that Mingus fellow was on to something

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by Infrasonik B.

read my sig, I think that Mingus fellow was on to something

That's some deep sh*t....

[Russell L]

Yes, well, I try to. It's easier when I'm jamming, though. Like the other night with some guys, just making up a groove for all to jam on, I came up with a very sparse line that was as simple as dirt, except that the notes were a bit unusual (I included a 2 that would slide in for a second, for instance), and the rhythm, although it was basically a familiar sound, wasn't exactly like what you would expect, not to mention that I tried to articulate things in a special way. (I'm also good at writing LONG sentences, I see. Sheesh).

It is refreshing indeed to hear a line that is simple, but includes elements that are rare. Gotta try to do that to keep from getting bored with the same old stuff all the time. Oh, and I'd rather try to make something complicated simple than the other way around.

[Mayers]

Originally Posted by mambo4

Not sure exactly what you are describing by "sound so much simpler than they actually are"...

In my experience, every time I thought a particular style of bass line was really simple, on exploration it turned out to be much more complex... generally in a rhythmic sense.
Simple note choices like a 1-5-8 can be expressed in a limitless variety of rhythms, articulations, dynamics and feels. In that sense, many "simple" bass lines are in fact more complex than at first may be apparent.

Rythmicaly yes but harmonicaly very poor... no matter how much feel you put in a simple 1-5-8 pattern if you remove every other instrument you can't say the song the bass player is playing ...

In the last band I was, I played more simple rythm but harmonicaly very complex line. We played stuff that was weird sounding but worked great together.

[teleharmonium]

I wouldn't say any of my lines are "really busy", but most of them are more complex than they seem on first listen.

In pop music, I think this is an indicator of a good bass part. It should have a fairly consistent flow and contour for the lines in the same sections (verses, choruses), so that the bass functions well without being distracting from the melody and words, but it should also respond to what the song is doing and outline the section transitions as well as the dynamics and atmosphere.

[GeoffT]

I've come across this a bunch after transcribing lines I loved and finding out how simple they actually were. Example, Woman's Gotta Have It by Bobby Womack, one of my all time faves. Transcribe the verse section and find out it's pretty much just doubling notes and walking down the pentatonic minor scale (with great rhythmic feel). I also find, sadly, it takes some of the magic out of it once I figure it out and find out how simple it really is.

[Russell L]

Ever notice how hard it is sometimes to hold back?

[Gaius46]

Originally Posted by Mayers

Rythmicaly yes but harmonicaly very poor... no matter how much feel you put in a simple 1-5-8 pattern if you remove every other instrument you can't say the song the bass player is playing ...

I don't think that's really the right criteria. You can say the same thing of a guitar just strumming the chords. Melody is usually what makes a song uniquely identifiable not harmony.

[teleharmonium]

Originally Posted by Russell L

Ever notice how hard it is sometimes to hold back?

All the time. When I'm working on a part for a new song, it almost always goes the same way; I listen to it several times and try to think of the part in my head first without touching a bass. I play through it once, have mixed feelings and maybe some mistakes, I play through it again and it's decent but too busy, and then I do it once again or maybe a few more times and it is right.

The part gets simpler each time. Usually the last one has about 1/3 as many notes as the first. It's like sculpture where I'm cutting out stuff I don't want.

It hit home when I heard a secondhand account of something Ornette Coleman said to a guy about his style, where Ornette emphasized strongly that you have to figure out what you don't want to do and stop doing those things. That negatively defined approach, I think, makes a huge amount of sense in practice given the way people naturally create from a sort of flowing river of ideas, although it sounds weird on paper.

At this point I am usually more impressed by restraint from a musician than I am in any specific thing that they are playing. With rare exceptions from a great melodic stylist. Restraint is just so much more rare than skill and I always find it totally refreshing.

[teleharmonium]

Originally Posted by Gaius46

I don't think that's really the right criteria. You can say the same thing of a guitar just strumming the chords. Melody is usually what makes a song uniquely identifiable not harmony.

That is very much a style dependent thing. I can think of a lot of exceptions. In mainstream pop I guess it's a reasonable truism that it's not harmony that uniquely identifies, but it can be lyrics and sounds and rhythm as much as melody.