Metronome and 16th notes

[Dyabolic]

I can't stress how guilty I feel posting another thread, especially since Stumbo wrapped up a thousand links for me for Christmas (And Stumbo if you see this thread I have been using those links.) But I need some advice about one thing (And I promise I'll end these threads!)

Right now I'm kind of practicing accents and left hand exercises (which is irrelevant to this topic I don't know why I brought it up.) But it wants me to practice them using 16th notes, which I didn't realise how hard it was (I always practice with a metronome). Franky, my ears suck, and sometimes I get confused because I'm trying to listen to my bass and my metronome (80bps) So when I do hit the 16th note correctly I get thrown off because I can't keep it steady and lose it before the next click on the metronome. I also don't count how many times I strike inbetween beats, if I do I get even more confused and slow down.

So my question is: How do you guys pull off 16th notes while still being able to keep track how many times you striked and still be able to time it right with metronome, and what should I do to be able to pull off 4 measures of 16th notes?

Like I said, sorry for making a second help thread. I don't mean to clutter the board

[JohnDavisNYC]

think harder and listen harder! (i mean that in as friendly a way as possible!)

start really slow at a tempo where it is not a problem, and only speed up when you can consistently and comfortable play those 16th notes.

if you know your ear sucks, and you actually want to be good at this music thing, you need to work on your ear.... listening to multiple things at the same time is integral to playing bass.

personally, i think that FEELING the click is more important than HEARING it... if you are listening to some plastic piece of **** clicking away and trying to divide that obnoxious sound into 4 even amounts, of course it is gonna suck... BUT, if you feel that obnoxious little clicking sound as a pulse and can feel a 16th note groove at that pulse, you will be able to play 16th notes. it has to be about the groove, not about how many 'events' happen between two clicks.

as far as your final question, it should depend on the tempo... playing 16th notes for 4 bars is easy if it is at 12 beats per minute... you should find a tempo you are comfortable playing 16ths at, and play as in the pocket as possible for as long as possible (i like to do this with the click only happening on the 2 and 4...), and then speed up 4 clicks and do the same for as long as possible, then slow down 2 clicks, then up 4, etc....

if you practice diligently with the metronome, while all the time focusing on GROOVING, you should have no problem playing 16ths for 4 bars, you just need to hear it internally first.

john

[RadioMasterDude]

Another tip for playing 16th notes is maybe if you start at 80 bpm (or even slower) you could consider that tempo like eighth note clicks on a tempo of 40 bpm, so when you get used to that you can go faster and faster, after go back at a slow tempo and then play the 16th notes normally. Then do variations on those 16th notes kind of like: NOTE NOTE REST NOTE or NOTE REST NOTE REST or any other kind of combination.

Oh yeah, three steps: Listen, focus and think (and of course play).

[Jake of Bass]

Great advice there.

I'd like to add just a small piece to it, and that is to perhaps start around 60bpm, tap your foot to the beat and like JohnDavisNYC said, feel the beat as a pulse, not just a series of sounds. Once you've got that then count each beat:

"1 2 3 4"

and then subdivide that so you count

"1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +"

and finally count

"1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a 4 e + a"

... once you've got that then start playing the notes in the same way.

[rythmicillusion]

I attribute my ability to subdivide 16th notes in a musical way mostly for two reasons:

1) Being aware of the mathematical side of rhythm, and pursuing different avenues of learning from there.

2) Playing with musicians with better time than me, who are patient and articulate enough to help you "get on board"

It seems like you have a reasonable idea of how to approach number 1. Number 2 requires that you seek out highly skilled musicians/teachers to help put it into a living, breathing context. You might be able to ask around and find the right person or people...it can be as simple as checking out some local bands and keeping your ears peeled for musicians with a feel and approach you like. Tell them what you like about their playing, and then see if they'd be down to jam with you or even just chat. I can say from experience that the only compliments I get at a gig that I really feel warmed by, are the really specific ones.

I have taken lessons from a piano player with a great time feel, and that has helped my time tremendously.

I also interviewed a drummer whose sense of rhythm really blew me away. I walked away from that with some ideas that I use to this day.

Good luck!

[Dyabolic]

Thanks a lot for the replies guys, I took a lot of what was said to heart and it worked a lot. The 1-e-and-a 2-e-and-a helped, still trying to figure out whether I'm too slow or if I just keep getting myself lost (when it comes to the clicks of the metronome.)

Of course practice, practice, practice. Hell I've been on Chapter 4 part 2 of this book for at least 4 days, working on accents - like I said, and I wont feel comfortable moving on until I've mastered basic 16th notes! I'm on the verge, I know it.

One more thing, my metronome tends to make a louder click with every new measure, Is it normal that the louder click tends to throw me off?

[Jake of Bass]

Yeah a lot of metronomes will have an accented click on the 1 beat. You can usually turn this off but it can help if you're playing in a more irregular time signature like 5/4 etc.

And have a bit of patience already! When I started guitar it took me a good three months to get through the first book, and it wasn't till halfway through the second one where I started on 16th notes. Just give it some time and it'll improve by itself, don't try to rush it.

[rpsands]

You should definitely turn off the accented beat. Once you get used to it it becomes a crutch you rely on. Bass players have to be able to feel the one like clockwork. Every time, all the time. It took me months of practice to break my dependency on the accented 1 metronome.

I start every practice session with a metronome clapping session. This is ridiculous, I know, but I do it for 5 minutes before I start playing. I want to say I got this from the "Studybass" guy, but man it helps. A clap will totally eat the sound of a clicking metronome, so if your timing is on you don't hear the clicks. Lets you know when you're dead on.

I also do a slapping exercise, as muted slaps and pops will also swallow the sound of a metronome, making sure you are dead on. This looks like:
S H S P
X X X X

s= slap
h=hammeron
p=pop

Do that in sixteenth notes, and try to make sure your first slap in each phrase covers up the clicking of the metronome.

You can also actually fret the first note in each series, so that you hear the click, which is another good test of your timing.

60bpm is where I started 16ths and it's a good spot. You can clearly hear the subdivisions at that speed, typically.