Minor keys?

[Ulyanov]

What's a minor key? Ok, well, I know how key signatures work, I think. I know that when you're in say, the key of C, all of the possible chords are made up of the notes in a C scale, like Cmaj, Amin, Fmaj, etc. And I know that each major chord has a relative minor, so in this case, that would be Amin. So, how does the key of Cmaj differ from Amin? Wouldn't they have the same notes in them?

[stephanie]

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
...The key of A whatever, the dominant chord is going to be E7 (E G# B D). And that gives us our Old Friend, the tonic minor chord. Because of the G# (which is not in the key signature, right?), they call this modal interchange. It means that since the function that you need in the key doesn't exist in the key, you can "borrow"it from another modality (in this case the modes of the melodic minor scale).

I'm a little confused by this. Do you mean the key of A minor's dominant chord is E7, or A major? Cuz I'm thinking A major and G# is in that key. I think I'm missing something here, though. I've never heard of tonic minor chord before, heh....and which melodic minor scale are we 'borrowing' from?

Thanks,
Stephanie

[stephanie]

Hey, thanks Ed. That's a lot clearer to me now. And I remember learning minor/major 7th chords, when I learned the chords for each key.

(Duh about A Melodic Minor...I shoulda known that. Wasn't thinking right at the time. )

Thanks again.

[munkycharmz]

minor is sad. Just thought i'd say that.

[Wrong Robot]

Originally posted by munkycharmz
minor is sad. Just thought i'd say that.

minor is generally not as bright as major, but htere have been songs in minor that sound bright as there have been songs in major that sound sad, its all in how you play it...well mostly.

[*ToNeS*]

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
Yes.


And No.

Here's where our old friend, functional harmony comes in.
You will remember that one thing that helps "establish" a key is the tendency of the sounds of notes played at the same time (chords) to be stable or unstable and desirious of being stable (wanting to resolve). Well, the strongest resolution is that of a dominant chord to a tonic chord. In the key of Cmajor it's evident enough, G7 to Cmaj7. But the minor key? Forget about notes for a minute, just think about patterns of resolution. The strongest resolution V7 to tonic. The key of A whatever, the dominant chord is going to be E7 (E G# B D). And that gives us our Old Friend, the tonic minor chord. Because of the G# (which is not in the key signature, right?), they call this modal interchange. It means that since the function that you need in the key doesn't exist in the key, you can "borrow"it from another modality (in this case the modes of the melodic minor scale).

i have absolutely no idea what is going on

[*ToNeS*]

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
...and yet you go on living.....

now Ed, that is neither polite nor constructive. nice ponytail, by the way

[Mike Dimin]

Ed,
how about the Harmonic Minor, as opposed to the Melodic Minor.

If I remember all that classical theory stuff the Melodic minor reverts to a natuarl minor scale when decending. In the Harmonic minor we always have the raised 7th degree

Mike

[*ToNeS*]

Originally posted by KUNG FOO BAR

Why don't you make fun of me for being old?

hey, why should i when someone else will?

Originally posted by HED GIVA

..if I am recalling correctly for I am an old ****er..

and you guys say us paddle-players put no effort into anything

[*ToNeS*]

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
TONESFORJOAN'SBONES -

you know something? i designed this nickname (ie. i actually sat down with a piece of paper and all manner of funky stationary) specifically in order to avoid the patented "NAME BASTARDIZATION 101" techniques of TOUCHING UP GURRLS and his sensei, DREAD RHUBARB

as if living with little to no knowledge of functional harmony (not to mention the fact that i've lost my lighter) wasn't bad enough...

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally posted by *ToNeS*

you know something? i designed this nickname (ie. i actually sat down with a piece of paper and all manner of funky stationary) specifically in order to avoid the patented "NAME BASTARDIZATION 101" techniques of TOUCHING UP GURRLS and his sensei, DREAD RHUBARB

[/size]

*StOnEd*,

Didn't seem to work too well, did it? The best laid plans of mice, men, and clueless Aussies and all that....

Back to the subject at hand, I think that the real answer about minor is to be found in the entirety of the "Legit" Melodic Minor scale. Most of the time in minor, it's only the dominant function (V7 and viidim7) chords which use the leading tone consistently. The whole "i miMa7" chord is more of a color choice, and I find that I hardly ever see the III7+ chord in tunes. To me, minor is about the following scale degrees: 1, 2, b3, 4, and 5...after that, you can use either b6 or 6, and then either b7 or 7 (or any combination of the above), based on whatever you're trying to get across at that point. I often feel like all of these different minor scale forms are just a big waste of time since Natural, Harmonic, Dorian, and Melodic ascending can all be found as subsets of the scale mentioned above. Why learn four different scales when you can just toggle a couple of notes from a large-scale tonality one way or the other?

But that's probably just me....

[Mike Dimin]

Most of the time in minor, it's only the dominant function (V7 and viidim7) chords which use the leading tone consistently

It's not just the leading tone that gives, as Ed says

You will remember that one thing that helps "establish" a key is the tendency of the sounds of notes played at the same time (chords) to be stable or unstable and desirious of being stable (wanting to resolve).

It is the presence of the tritone (aug 4th) between the 3rd and 7th degrees of a domiant 7th chord that create the tension and desire for resolution


Mike

[ldiezman]

I'm confused.. Was the question what are the relative minor keys to all major? if thats it.. lemme show you....

Cmaj-Amin
Gmaj-Emin
Dmaj-bmin
Amaj-F#min
Emaj-C#min
BMaj-G#/Abmin (enharmonic)
F#Maj-D#/Ebmin(enharmonic)
C#Maj-A#/Bbmin(enharmonic)

Fmaj-Dmin
Bbmaj-Gmin
Ebmaj-Cmin
Abmaj-Fmin
Dbmaj-Bbmin
Gbmaj-eb/d#min(enharmonic) [edit]
Cbmaj-ab/g#min(enharmonic) [edit]

Enharmonic spellings are basically The same notes just "spelled" differently. A# is essentially the same thing as Bb.. This is for ease of reading a piece and chord spelling.. would you rather see C major or B#major?

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally posted by ldiezman

Dbmaj-Bmin
Gbmaj-A#/Bbmin(enharmonic)
Cbmaj-D#/Ebmin(enharmonic)

You got a little off the tracks there at the end:

Should be

Dbmaj--Bbmin
Gbmaj--Ebmin
Cbmaj--Abmin

[Gunnar Þór]

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
Why don't you make fun of me for being old?

Fine. But I'm not enjoying this.

Haha! You're old!

Happy?

Old people, huh? Your parents come to you and say "Respect your elders", and you do, 'cause it seems like a good idea you know, they're old, they're confused and don't really know what's going on in the world anymore. So we ease off on them. And then what happens? Old geezer: "Make fun of me for being old. When I was your age I made fun of old people, why won't you?".



No offence meant of course, *BED FUNGUS*

[ldiezman]

Originally posted by Richard Lindsey


You got a little off the tracks there at the end:

Should be

Dbmaj--Bbmin
Gbmaj--Ebmin
Cbmaj--Abmin

Oops sorry about the mistake. Thanks for pointing that out Richard. I was in a hurry to go eat. i'll fix that