Mode and Key Relationships

[Correlli]

Forgive me if I'm not explaining this very well, but I'm not 100% clear on the concept myself. So if you having anything to add, correct, or debate - thank you.

What I hoping to acheive here, is having access to all 12 major keys, using the 7 modes, using C and B as the tonic positions: C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, C Mixolydian, C Aeolian, C Locrian AND B Ionian, B Dorian, B Phrygian, B Lydian, B Mixolydian, B Aeolian, B Locrian.

Table 1 shows you how to acheive access to the first 7 keys using the 7 modes in the C position (C-Bb-Ab-G-F-Eb-Db)

Example: C Phrygian -> Ab Diatonic Major scale -> Key of Ab

Table 1

Major Keys: C-Bb-Ab-G-F-Eb-Db


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Ionian         D Dorian        E Phrygian       F Lydian        G Mixolydian     A Aeolian       B Locrian
(Diatonic Major) (Natural Minor)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Dorian        D Phrygian       Eb Lydian        F Mixolydian    G Aeolian        A Locrian       Bb Ionian
                                                                  (Natural Minor)    (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Phrygian       Db Lydian       Eb Mixolydian    F Aeolian       G Locrian        Ab Ionian       Bb Dorian
                                                  (Natural Minor)  (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Lydian         D Mixolydian    E Aeolian        F# Locrian      G Ionian         A Dorian        B Phrygian
                                 (Natural Minor) (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Mixolydian     D Aeolian       E Locrian        F Ionian        G Dorian         A Phrygian      Bb Lydian
                 (Natural Minor) (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Aeolian        D Locrian       Eb Ionian        F Dorian        G Phrygian       Ab Lydian       Bb Mixolydian
(Natural Minor) (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Locrian        Db Ionian       Eb Dorian        F Phrygian      G Lydian         Ab Mixolydian   Bb Aeolian
                 (Diatonic Major)  (Natural Minor)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Table 2 shows you how to acheive access to the other 5 major keys using the 7 modes, in the B position (B-A-G-F#-E-D-C). C and G are duplicated in the second table.

Table 2

Major Keys: B-A-G-F#-E-D-C

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B Ionian         C# Dorian        D# Phrygian     E Lydian        F# Mixolydian    G# Aeolian       A# Locrian
(Diatonic Major) (Natural Minor)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B Dorian         C# Phrygian      D Lydian        E Mixolydian    F# Aeolian       G# Locrian       A Ionian
                                                                  (Natural Minor)  (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B Phrygian       C Lydian         D Mixolydian    E Aeolian       F# Locrian       G Ionian         A Dorian
                                                  (Natural Minor)  (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B Lydian         C# Mixolydian    D# Aeolian      E# Locrian      F# Ionian        G# Dorian        A# Phrygian
                                  (Natural Minor) (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B Mixolydian     C# Aeolian       D# Locrian      E Ionian        F# Dorian        G# Phrygian      A Lydian
                 (Natural Minor)  (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B Aeolian        C# Locrian       D Ionian        E Dorian        F# Phrygian      G Lydian         A Mixolydian
(Natural Minor)  (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B Locrian        C Ionian         D Dorian        E Phrygian      F Lydian         G Mixolydian     A Aeolian
                 (Diatonic Major)  (Natural Minor)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A short-cut that I've been thinking about, is instead of playing all modes flat by a half step using the B as the tonic note position, detune the instument a half step to so you can retain the original C position as shown in Table 1. eg Eb-Ab-Db-Gb

In theory, by learning the 7 modes, all in the C position, as well as detuning the instrument by a half-step, you have access to every single Major key: C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-Db-Ab-Eb-Bb-F

[cowsgomoo]

what if the piece modulates? I don't want to have to retune mid-song because I can only play in certain keys

[Correlli]

Originally Posted by cowsgomoo

what if the piece modulates? I don't want to have to retune mid-song because I can only play in certain keys

good point. but I havn't made any reference to any piece of music. care to elaborate

[spc]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Forgive me if I'm not explaining this very well, but I'm not 100% clear on the concept myself. So if you having anything to add, correct, or debate - thank you.

What I hoping to acheive here, is having access to all 12 major keys, using the 7 modes, using C and B as the tonic positions: C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, C Mixolydian, C Aeolian, C Locrian AND B Ionian, B Dorian, B Phrygian, B Lydian, B Mixolydian, B Aeolian, B Locrian.

Table 1 shows you how to acheive access to the first 7 keys using the 7 modes in the C position (C-Bb-Ab-G-F-Eb-Db)

Example: C Phrygian -> Ab Diatonic Major scale -> Key of Ab

Table 1

Major Keys: C-Bb-Ab-G-F-Eb-Db


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Ionian         D Dorian        E Phrygian       F Lydian        G Mixolydian     A Aeolian       B Locrian
(Diatonic Major) (Natural Minor)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Dorian        D Phrygian       Eb Lydian        F Mixolydian    G Aeolian        A Locrian       Bb Ionian
                                                                  (Natural Minor)    (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Phrygian       Db Lydian       Eb Mixolydian    F Aeolian       G Locrian        Ab Ionian       Bb Dorian
                                                  (Natural Minor)  (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Lydian         D Mixolydian    E Aeolian        F# Locrian      G Ionian         A Dorian        B Phrygian
                                 (Natural Minor) (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Mixolydian     D Aeolian       E Locrian        F Ionian        G Dorian         A Phrygian      Bb Lydian
                 (Natural Minor) (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Aeolian        D Locrian       Eb Ionian        F Dorian        G Phrygian       Ab Lydian       Bb Mixolydian
(Natural Minor) (Diatonic Major)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Locrian        Db Ionian       Eb Dorian        F Phrygian      G Lydian         Ab Mixolydian   Bb Aeolian
                 (Diatonic Major)  (Natural Minor)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Table 2 shows you how to acheive access to the other 5 major keys using the 7 modes, in the B position (B-A-G-F#-E-D-C). C and G are duplicated in the second table.

Table 2

[code]

Major Keys: B-A-G-F#-E-D-C

Kiwi,

There are 15 keys in music.

The sharp keys- G D A E B F# C# the sharps ascend in order- G is 1 sharp, D Is 2 sharps (meaning the key has 2 sharps), A is three sharps, etc.

The flat keys- F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb the flats ascend in order- F is one flat, Bb is two flats, Eb is three flats, etc.

and the key of C, no sharps or flats.


shawn

[Correlli]

Originally Posted by spc

Kiwi,

There are 15 keys in music.


shawn

15, here's me thinking there were 12.

I'll work on the wording a bit better. Rather than use the word key, "position" would be better word

[MarkTAW]

Well, he lists Db and C#, for example.

I'm really kinda confused as to what you're trying to achieve. You want to be able to play in every possible key using first position only? What's the point of forcing yourself to play in first position, why not allow yourself to run the same scale, but one fret up or down?

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

What I hoping to acheive here, is having access to all 12 major keys, using the 7 modes, using C and B as the tonic positions:

Okay. It seems that you've done it. Now what? It all looks very text book and complex on "paper", but what are you going to do with it?

Are you looking to master one position on the fingerboard so you can memorize pitch placement? Or are you trying to memorize finger patterns? Are you trying to make it possible to transpose any given line or lick to any key?

What are your plans for your analysis?

Joe

[MarkTAW]

Could lead to some interesting inversions. Though I suspect the rest of the band would get annoyed at everything seeming to root at C...

[steveb98]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Well, he lists Db and C#, for example.

I'm really kinda confused as to what you're trying to achieve. You want to be able to play in every possible key using first position only? What's the point of forcing yourself to play in first position, why not allow yourself to run the same scale, but one fret up or down?

+1

I've looked at that post a couple times today and can't figure out what he is trying to illustrate. Me I learned how scales are constructed, the order of the modes, and how each mode is constructed. Actually I learn how each mode differs from a major scale, kinda the same thing. So with those formulas I can figure out any of that info instantly. Working this out on paper will help learn it in the beginning, but to internalize it you need to quiz yourself in your head without paper.

For me the most important was learning how each mode differed from a major scale. Then I knew the modes by what color-tones they gave me.

But good to see he is thinking about this and creating these tables will help him.

[MarkTAW]

Definitely. I did a lot of this kind of thing when I was learning. This kind of "thinking things through for yourself" really helps your understanding of the material and gives you a unique perspective that can contribute to "your sound."