Modes... Okay. I get it. Now what?

[fLaT-fIfTh]

Here's the scoop! I now have general fretboard knowledge and I have memorized the modal scales. Now that modes are under my fingers, where do you suggest I go next? I'm making a transition from keys so my instict is to start working on songs now so that I get used to "playing." Am I right? Are there more fundamental skills I should nail down before I venture into playing tunes?

[DocBop]

There are many threads on modes here. I would suggest starting by searching and reading some of the existing threads. Then you narrow your question down to something more specific about modes and chord/scales, methods of practice, and so on.

Also check out Jamey Aebersold's website, he has a free Jazz Handbook that is a great starting point.

http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merch...Code=_HANDBOOK

[fLaT-fIfTh]

Thanks. I guess my question pertains more to practice methods/advancement. I feel like I have some basic skills under my belt and I'm anxious to start playing tunes. However, being self-taught, I don't want to move too fast and miss important fundamentals...

[magnusdeus123]

Same issues I'm having .

I'm just building up my skills on modes and other interesting scales that I can use such as the Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor , and what I dont understand is that after practicing them , what exactly do I do with them to take them foward .

From what I've understood on people suggesting is that for every mode and scale , a relation to the chords should be learnt , as chords at any time form the building blocks of any musical composition , and then take chord progressions and try to improvise the scale related to that chord over it . What I dont understand is the different type of chords that can be derived from a single scale , because I keep see'ing people talking about 'Harmonizing the scale' and I dont get that . Right now I've just managed to figure out the Tonic chord that can be obtained from a scale . I'm not sure about what Harmonizing the scale means , and if someone could expand upon that , I'd really be gratefull .

[JimmyM]

Next step would be to get some simple Real Book charts like "Autumn Leaves" or "All Of Me," and walk through the changes using the modes you think best apply to the chords you're playing. Then take a few passes at soloing using the modes. If you're unsure what to play, just play ascending and descending lines in scale steps until you get an idea of how to mix them up. And get different versions of these songs and listen to how the different artists approach soloing.

But when you play for real, don't just run scale steps. That's just to give yourself an idea of what to play. Try to mix things up to where it doesn't sound like you're running scales. Running scales is the death of music as far as I'm concerned. That's my one problem with modes, that people often sound like they're just running scales when they use them, and they get afraid to step out of them for fear they'll play something bad. I say who cares if you play something bad? Can't learn what's good without knowing what's bad. Be creative and don't be afraid to screw up.

[mambo4]

I'd agree with others who suggest moving on to learning songs. That will build your vocabulary of common chord changes.

I think that the most practical way to think about/apply modal stuff is to learn to think in chords and chord changes. I never think "i'm playing mixolydian" I just think "i'm playing a Dominant 7 chord" or "i'm playing a vi-ii-V-I"

check my signature link for a good resource

[fLaT-fIfTh]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I think that the most practical way to think apply modal stuff is to learn to think in chords and chord changes. I never think "i'm playing mixolydian" I just think "i'm playing a Dominant 7 chord" or "i'm playing a vi-ii-V-I"

Great point! I was actually thinking "Oh, I can play mixolydian right here..." However, I see the obvious advantage of your point. Thanks!

[Grinky]

Hey flatfifth!
Excellent! You've been practicing your modes diligently and if you've gotten them right at your fingertips as you say, its going to be a really good foundation block for your further bass playing. Think of the modes as an available pool of notes that you can use when you see a chord in a song. For example, in the key of G major, it's written Am on the chordsheet. An Am scale would be missing that essential F# that you would otherwise play in the A Dorian mode. That way, you'll know which notes to use and like a few other replies have said, use those notes freely! Don't think of them as a scale, but as an available pool of notes. Once you're at that level, you shouldn't be thinking, "oh, i can play the Augmented Lydian here" and such, but you'd immediately recognise which notes are from that mode and which you should be playing and which sound good with what the rest of the band is playing. yep.

Also, be sure to practice your modes in every key. If I'm right, it sounds like you memorized the modal patterns. That doesn't really work out very well when it comes down to crunch time and you're playing some serious bass lines. There are 4 aspects to practicing scales.

1) Visual
2) Theoretical
3) Tactile
4) Aural

Be sure to fully utilise all four when you practicing scales. I would say the most important is the aural part of your practicing. Learn to recognize intervalic sounds. Know your intervals as well as your modes cuz that's what you're gonna need to play and eventually, improvise on tunes. For example, can you tell straight away what a major 6th sounds like? How does that interval pattern look like on the fretboard? Which notes are you playing?

Yes that's right. Strive to know where every single note is on each of your strings. Don't cheat and use octave patterns to help you. Memorize them string by string. Do you know where the Ab is on your D String? ... If that took you more than a second you're still too slow. (I learnt this from one of Jaco's instructional videos)

Hope this helps!

[fLaT-fIfTh]

Originally Posted by Grinky

Hey flatfifth!
Excellent! You've been practicing your modes diligently and if you've gotten them right at your fingertips as you say, its going to be a really good foundation block for your further bass playing. Think of the modes as an available pool of notes that you can use when you see a chord in a song. For example, in the key of G major, it's written Am on the chordsheet. An Am scale would be missing that essential F# that you would otherwise play in the A Dorian mode. That way, you'll know which notes to use and like a few other replies have said, use those notes freely! Don't think of them as a scale, but as an available pool of notes. Once you're at that level, you shouldn't be thinking, "oh, i can play the Augmented Lydian here" and such, but you'd immediately recognise which notes are from that mode and which you should be playing and which sound good with what the rest of the band is playing. yep.

Also, be sure to practice your modes in every key. If I'm right, it sounds like you memorized the modal patterns. That doesn't really work out very well when it comes down to crunch time and you're playing some serious bass lines. There are 4 aspects to practicing scales.

1) Visual
2) Theoretical
3) Tactile
4) Aural

Be sure to fully utilise all four when you practicing scales. I would say the most important is the aural part of your practicing. Learn to recognize intervalic sounds. Know your intervals as well as your modes cuz that's what you're gonna need to play and eventually, improvise on tunes. For example, can you tell straight away what a major 6th sounds like? How does that interval pattern look like on the fretboard? Which notes are you playing?

Yes that's right. Strive to know where every single note is on each of your strings. Don't cheat and use octave patterns to help you. Memorize them string by string. Do you know where the Ab is on your D String? ... If that took you more than a second you're still too slow. (I learnt this from one of Jaco's instructional videos)

Hope this helps!

Great post! I know I still have a ways to go because I find myself thinking too much. For example, the Ab on the D string question I had to look at my fretboard. I hope to get to a point where I can internalize it and visualize it in my head. I actually tune down to flats Thanks for your time... helpful stuff.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by Grinky

Hey flatfifth!
Excellent! You've been practicing your modes diligently and if you've gotten them right at your fingertips as you say, its going to be a really good foundation block for your further bass playing. Think of the modes as an available pool of notes that you can use when you see a chord in a song. For example, in the key of G major, it's written Am on the chordsheet. An Am scale would be missing that essential F# that you would otherwise play in the A Dorian mode. That way, you'll know which notes to use and like a few other replies have said, use those notes freely! Don't think of them as a scale, but as an available pool of notes. Once you're at that level, you shouldn't be thinking, "oh, i can play the Augmented Lydian here" and such, but you'd immediately recognise which notes are from that mode and which you should be playing and which sound good with what the rest of the band is playing. yep.

Also, be sure to practice your modes in every key. If I'm right, it sounds like you memorized the modal patterns. That doesn't really work out very well when it comes down to crunch time and you're playing some serious bass lines. There are 4 aspects to practicing scales.

1) Visual
2) Theoretical
3) Tactile
4) Aural

Be sure to fully utilise all four when you practicing scales. I would say the most important is the aural part of your practicing. Learn to recognize intervalic sounds. Know your intervals as well as your modes cuz that's what you're gonna need to play and eventually, improvise on tunes. For example, can you tell straight away what a major 6th sounds like? How does that interval pattern look like on the fretboard? Which notes are you playing?

Yes that's right. Strive to know where every single note is on each of your strings. Don't cheat and use octave patterns to help you. Memorize them string by string. Do you know where the Ab is on your D String? ... If that took you more than a second you're still too slow. (I learnt this from one of Jaco's instructional videos)

Hope this helps!

cool, i know i way round every note on the fretboard pretty well now, still practicing to get them more drilled into my head and fingers.

but i've also learnd all the modes, but not 100% how to really use them, i jam along to songs and try out modes to see how they will fit, so something like, if the song is in A Minor, G mixolydian will work over it for the most part, and also, E Phrygian, C Ionian, and A Phrygian mode works over A minor since it is practicly a minor scale with one note differance, this is the way i've been using modes when jamming along to songs. i know its basicly just changing what the root note is for a while, but the true root note would always be A minor, even if i'm treeting E as the root and using the phrygian mode, the true root note is A.