Modes of Scales

Bass-4-God · #1 07-20-2011, 02:53 PM

What does ist mean when you are told to practice your scales and the modes of the scales? Scales are named Ionian, Dorian, Phyrgian, etc... so if I'm practicing the 5th which is the Mixolydian would I start there and go through the from there. Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian, and back to the Mixolydian. Help please did i get it right or am I confused.

JTE · #2 07-20-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass-4-God

What does ist mean when you are told to practice your scales and the modes of the scales? Scales are named Ionian, Dorian, Phyrgian, etc... so if I'm practicing the 5th which is the Mixolydian would I start there and go through the from there. Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian, and back to the Mixolydian. Help please did i get it right or am I confused.

Instead of rehashing this, I would suggest reading through the current thread "How do modes work- really?".

Don't practice modes if you don't know what they are, that's just wiggling your fingers. The scales are NOT named Ionian, etc.

John

Bass-4-God · #3 07-20-2011, 03:28 PM

Calm down I just transposed some words by bad anyway you know what I mean. Yes I will read "How Modes Work". Just trying ting to learn.

fearceol · #4 07-20-2011, 03:56 PM

If you are new to theory and bass, you are better off learning all there is to know about chords, first, before delving into modes.

But to answer your question, here is another informative thread on modes :

Bassy Bill's Beginners' Basic guide to scales and modes

MalcolmAmos · #5 07-20-2011, 04:19 PM

Modes are for the advanced player. There is more than enough to keep us busy learning how to use chord tones.

Chord tones are great for accompaniment bass.
Modes are great for solo bass.

Are you getting any lead solo breaks? When you do start learning about modes.

Modes are very simple, however, we love to make them complicated. Do yourself a big favor and just concentrate on chord tones, you will know when to branch off into modes.

As to modes being scales. Modes are moods of a scale. If you are not trying to set a mood don't use modes. The major and natural minor scale will let you do everything you need.

Easiest way to set a mood, have a vocalist sing the song. Vocalists do a great job of setting a mood.
Do you need a mode if you have a vocalist? Probably not.

bigboy_78 · #6 07-20-2011, 06:21 PM

You don't really need to learn about modes unless you really, really have to.

but.....

You should learn to play all you scales starting on each note of the scale. eg C-C, D-D, E-E etc. as a fretboard knowledge type of thing.

mambo4 · #7 07-20-2011, 07:16 PM

ton answer the Op's question directly:
" to practice your scales and the modes of the scales" means
play C major & all its modes, then play C# major & all its modes, then play D major & all its modes....and so on for all 12 keys.

but as others have expressed, understand chords before modes. Far, far more valuable.

**Pacman** · #8 07-20-2011, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

As to modes being scales. Modes are moods of a scale. If you are not trying to set a mood don't use modes. The major and natural minor scale will let you do everything you need.

You've said this here before. It's still not true.

Mesa · #9 07-21-2011, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Modes are for the advanced player. There is more than enough to keep us busy learning how to use chord tones.

Chord tones are great for accompaniment bass.
Modes are great for solo bass.

Are you getting any lead solo breaks? When you do start learning about modes.

Modes are very simple, however, we love to make them complicated. Do yourself a big favor and just concentrate on chord tones, you will know when to branch off into modes.

As to modes being scales. Modes are moods of a scale. If you are not trying to set a mood don't use modes. The major and natural minor scale will let you do everything you need.

Easiest way to set a mood, have a vocalist sing the song. Vocalists do a great job of setting a mood.
Do you need a mode if you have a vocalist? Probably not.

Seriously, would you please just stop? This is such bad information.

MalcolmAmos · #10 07-21-2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

You've said this here before. It's still not true.

Yes I remember, however, that time like now you never bother going into detail as to what is wrong. Until I know what you consider wrong I have no reason to change the way I feel about modes.

Of course I do not want to give misinformation, let me know what you consider is incorrect.

**Pacman** · #11 07-21-2011, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Yes I remember, however, that time like now you never bother going into detail as to what is wrong. Until I know what you consider wrong I have no reason to change the way I feel about modes.

Of course I do not want to give misinformation, let me know what you consider is incorrect.

Your entire post is incorrect.

Modes are scales - and they describe a specific harmony. They are related to a scale, and yet they stand on their own. They are not "moods of a scale" - the problem with learning modes is shackling them to the parent scale.

Your BS about "moods" is exactly that: BS. An instrumentalist can set a mood just as easily as a vocalist - and it has nothing to do with modes. or moods.

MalcolmAmos · #12 07-21-2011, 08:08 AM

I thought you might be objecting to the mood. Others do also, however, there are some of us that do suscribe to this thinking. Fretlight Guitar Blog » The Moods Of The Modes

fearceol · #13 07-21-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Your entire post is incorrect.

Modes are scales - and they describe a specific harmony. They are related to a scale, and yet they stand on their own. They are not "moods of a scale" - the problem with learning modes is shackling them to the parent scale.

Your BS about "moods" is exactly that: BS. An instrumentalist can set a mood just as easily as a vocalist - and it has nothing to do with modes. or moods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

I thought you might be objecting to the mood. Others do also, however, there are some of us that do suscribe to this thinking. Fretlight Guitar Blog » The Moods Of The Modes

These conflicting views, along with the bickering, dont make it any easier for the rest of us mere mortals who are trying to get a handle on modes.

MalcolmAmos · #14 07-21-2011, 10:16 AM

True, and I apologize for that. Don't expect to get what you need about modes from an Internet forum.

Let Google call up some theory papers on the subject and study those.

Good luck.

Richard Lindsey · #15 07-21-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

I thought you might be objecting to the mood. Others do also, however, there are some of us that do suscribe to this thinking. Fretlight Guitar Blog » The Moods Of The Modes

Well, if this is what you're basing the "moods of a scale" statement on, I think you've misunderstood what this person is saying. He's not saying, you have a scale and then the modes are "moods" of it. He's saying that every scale, and thus every mode, has a certain flavor related to the notes and the pattern of intervals contained within it. Now, one can argue about the details of those moods (is the mixolydian necessarily all that funky?

), but that's what he's saying.

Your explanation sees modes as versions or facets of some other scale, and thus somehow "shackled" to that scale. The person you quoted, however, sees modes and scales as independent and equal players with regard to conveying (or not conveying) a mood. A major scale (ionian mode) conveys a mood. A minor scale conveys a mood. A dorian mode conveys a mood. All of these things stand alone it that respect.

You see the difference?

Richard Lindsey · #16 07-21-2011, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearceol

These conflicting views, along with the bickering, dont make it any easier for the rest of us mere mortals who are trying to get a handle on modes.

Well, you can't have the Internet without conflicting views. That's never going to happen and shouldn't be expected to. *Depending (always) on the setting*, however, some views may be demonstrably more accurate and useful than others. You just have to figure out whom to trust more on specific matters. (The person you trust on theory might not be the same person you trust on gear or band management, though he or she might be.) The tricky bit, of course, is figuring out which is which.

Fergie Fulton · #17 07-21-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

I thought you might be objecting to the mood. Others do also, however, there are some of us that do suscribe to this thinking. Fretlight Guitar Blog » The Moods Of The Modes

Great link, i can see the point made for "moods" when applied to popular music. The song list for each "mood" in the link is a good way to introduce a player to the idea and notion of modes at a basic functional level is good in my opinion.

The construction of the 7 classic modes are inversions of a C scale....well its intervals. it is a great subject and as mentioned by Jon they do not need to be tied to the parent scale as they will stand alone. But equally they don't have to be seperated if the player or composer does not want to use them in that way. In the end to say it is BS is a bit strong as all it is at the worst is an un-adventurous and un-imaginative approach to their potential for the advanced player.

Johnny StingRay · #18 07-21-2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Modes are for the advanced player. There is more than enough to keep us busy learning how to use chord tones.

Chord tones are great for accompaniment bass.
Modes are great for solo bass.

Are you getting any lead solo breaks? When you do start learning about modes.

Modes are very simple, however, we love to make them complicated. Do yourself a big favor and just concentrate on chord tones, you will know when to branch off into modes.

As to modes being scales. Modes are moods of a scale. If you are not trying to set a mood don't use modes. The major and natural minor scale will let you do everything you need.

Easiest way to set a mood, have a vocalist sing the song. Vocalists do a great job of setting a mood.
Do you need a mode if you have a vocalist? Probably not.

Couldn't agree more with this!!!

Modes are nothing more than playing through the major scale but starting on different notes and ending an octave up (or down) to the same note you started on. That's not complicated. Like starting on D in the key of C major and playing D, E, F, G, A, B, C and D an octave higher. I guess they call that Dorian, but I don't have time to think about "the name" of the mode or whatever. All I know is that if a song is in C major and the chord is a D minor, I can zip through the C major scale up to D and pretty much cover that chord, BUT!!!!!! like it states above.................."Chord tones are great for accompaniment bass. Modes are great for solo bass."

Learn your chord notes and you'll do great!!!!

And kind of paraphrasing an old golf saying..........."Modes are for show, but chord tones get you the dough!"

Fergie Fulton · #19 07-21-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny StingRay

Modes are nothing more than playing through the major scale but starting on different notes and ending an octave up (or down) to the same note you started on.

A basic mis-conception on modes, what you describe is their construction not their uses. Modes in their basic form are 7 intervals organised to form different options in harmony, melody, scales etc. The use of those 7 options (5 tones and 2 semi tones) is where the substance of modes lie. Even with my very limited use and exposure to them in what i play, i understand there is great musicality in fully understanding and using them.

GreggBummer · #20 07-21-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny StingRay

Modes are nothing more than playing through the major scale but starting on different notes and ending an octave up (or down) to the same note you started on.

I think this could be the most important thing to take away from any lesson about modes. A scale has no beginning or end, you can start anywhere.

I practice my scales (and to some degree modes) as often as I can stand. However, it is my opinion, that this type of practice has it's limits. Knowing your scales and modes but not knowing how to apply them is sort of useless. It's great to know how to play E Lydian, but if you can't use it in actually making music... what good does it do you? I'm not knocking learning it. I'm just saying make sure you know why you are learning it.

For what it is worth- when jamming or improvising I tend to stay within the confines of chord tones. However, when I experiment I tend to expand my point of view to include scales or modes. This may be to my detriment. I consider myself a mediocre player...

Again, just my opinion.

EDIT: I mis-spoke: A scale is set of notes that clearly has a beginning and end. My point is that you can start anywhere in scale and play till you "go around the horn" and hit the octave. Up or down... it shouldn't matter.