More theory: help me Understand this diagram!

[WorshipBassist]

Please help with this! Trying to learn theory and I'm told by my professor to understand and memorize this chart, but what does it mean??

[Bassman8416]

Go to this site and click the first link and on under "Diatonic Chords"
Look at the the previous sections and make sure you have a grasp on those. Hopefully your teacher has
progressed up this point.

Ricci Adams' Musictheory.net

[JTE]

It's teaching you the harmonized scale, which is vital to understanding how chords relate. Write out the C major scale...
C D E F G A B C

Now, above that write out the scale, starting on the third (and it's NOT a mode in this case!!)
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C

And do it again, staggering it another third...
G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C

Those are the triads that occur in the key of C. Figure them out so that you KNOW not only what they are, but WHY. It's not enough to just memorize that the I chord is CMaj, the ii is Dmin, etc. but to fully grasp WHY. And seeing it in notation as your teachers' chart, is a great tool for understanding this.

Now, if you repeat it again, you get:
B C D E F G A B
G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C

Those are the 7th chords in the chart. He's also got 6ths in there, but the key point is that there are no accidentals in any of those chords. These chords occur naturally in the key of C major, and they're all inter-related because of that. So the ii chord isn't some isolated minor chord, it's related to the IV and the V!

John

[agreatheight]

Originally Posted by JTE

These chords occur naturally in the key of C major.

John

This is the simple, but important take away (until you can press your professor for what he was trying to teach you, lol).

[Groove Master]

This is actually a pretty good example of how to construct modes from the C major scale which is related to the other thread about modes that goes on right now.

The only 2 things I don't agree on that piece of paper are the Dmin6 which should be a Dmin13 with all the extensions (7.9.11.13) and same thing on the G6 which should be written as G13 with the 7,9 and 13 and an omit 11). As a dominant chord (V) this chord in its best functionality should imply the minor 7 in it then may be the 6th that would act more like a 13 instead.

This might be over your head right now but check with your teacher.

[M0ses]

Seems kind of dumb to try and cram basic chord function, diatonic triads, 6(13), and 7 chords all into one lesson.

[Groove Master]

Originally Posted by M0ses

Seems kind of dumb to try and cram basic chord function, diatonic triads, 6(13), and 7 chords all into one lesson.

What I would have avoid personally is writing the Dmin6 and the G6 on the chart because in functional harmony these are not really useful.

may be my previous post was a bit too much advanced.

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by Groove Master

What I would have avoid personally is writing the Dmin6 and the G6 on the chart because in functional harmony these are not really useful.

may be my previous post was a bit too much advanced.

No, those are indeed Dm6 and G6.

Labeling with the "13" presumes that there is a minor seventh in the chord.

Dm6 = D, F, A, B
Dm13 = D, F, A, C, (E), (G), B. The E and G may or may not be in the chord, but there must be a C (minor seventh).

Same with G6 v. G13.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by agreatheight

This is the simple, but important take away (until you can press your professor for what he was trying to teach you, lol).

Yes, unless you are being taught using standard notation I feel this diagram missed the target. Find out what your instructor wants you to take from this.

[Billnc]

You are able to play and hear them aren't you? The academic exercise is very good, but should be done with actually playing them.
I've used 6 chords quite often on guitar.

[Groove Master]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

No, those are indeed Dm6 and G6.

Labeling with the "13" presumes that there is a minor seventh in the chord.

Dm6 = D, F, A, B
Dm13 = D, F, A, C, (E), (G), B. The E and G may or may not be in the chord, but there must be a C (minor seventh).

Same with G6 v. G13.

You haven't read or didn't understand my post. These 2 chords don't have a harmonic function in a key. So these two degrees need a 7 to function, not a 6, even if mathematically you can do it.

[FretlessMainly]

I agree that the diagram is too confusing. I would fave presented this and this only:

CMaj7 Dmin7 E min7 FMaj7 G7 Amin7 Bmin7(b5) with the fulls chord written out in musical notation. That's the point of the lesson - the 6th chords only serve to confuse the issue. And showing both the triads and the 7th chords only complicates things with more "options." From day one I learned chords as having 1, 3, 5, and 7 - from there you can drop any of those chord tones and the chord will still function as that same four-note chord (albeit somewhat ambiguosly just by looking at the notes).

So the lesson here is that in any major key:

The I chord is Major 7
The II chord is min7
The III chord is min7
The IV chord is Maj7
the V chord is dominant7
the VI chord is min7
the VII chord is min7(b5)

and you construct each chord that is diatonic to a Major key using alternating notes on the staff starting with each scale degree.

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by Groove Master

You haven't read or didn't understand my post. These 2 chords don't have a harmonic function in a key. So these two degrees need a 7 to function, not a 6, even if mathematically you can do it.

I read your post. I understand 'functional harmony'.

Having an added tone, such as a second, sixth or ninth, does not not negate 'function'. Just as a triad (without a minor seventh) does not negate its function.

Perhaps the most famous Add Six chord is the final chord to "She Loves You", a G6, and is the I (tonic) chord with an added sixth. Clearly functioning as the end/final harmony.

Using extensions above "7" imply that the "Minor 7" is included. G13 implies these chord tones: G, B, D, F, E. With possibly the 9th (A) included. Not to be confused with labels such as Gadd9 or G6/9 or Gadd2, these are NOT Dominant or Dominant-sounding chords.

A G6 has no minor seventh interval above the root and is therefor NOT a G13 chord.

The Professor clearly stated "all the chords in example are in root position". Obviously so that there would be NO confusion with the Add Six chords being first inversion Minor Minor Seventh Chords -- G6 is NOT Em7/G.

Looking at the Professor's worksheet, he's not interested in functional harmony - the chords are labeled CM7, G6, B^ø7, etc.

If the Professor was interested in 'functional harmony', he'd be using I7, iim7, V7, etc for chord labels. Or providing an analysis of a functional series of harmonies.

It simply looks that he has harmonized a C Major Scale and is showing the ascension of the Fifth of the Triad moving to the Sixth then to the Seventh -- C, C6, CM7 -- on each scale step. And, by avoiding the Sixth added to the iii, vi and vii^ø chords, he's indicating that he's not interested in function, mathematics or confusion.

[FretlessMainly]

My opinion is that he/she should be interested in function rather than the addition of color tones. The sooner one understands chord function, the sooner one can move on to adding color tones which naturally moves into modality.

[longfinger]

Originally Posted by WorshipBassist

Please help with this! Trying to learn theory and I'm told by my professor to understand and memorize this chart, but what does it mean??

This is an excellent chart. You're in good hands with this teacher.

Play the exercises on your bass, then sing them in your vocal range. Hear what's happening. It means exactly what it sounds like.

Then do it in E, like the sheet says.

[sammyp]

weak lesson ...the Bm before the Em is inaccurate......he's trying to teach you the 7 chords that are derived from harmonizing a major scale ...and doing a poor job at it!

all those who think this is a solid or clear lesson ...you gotta be kidding me!?

adding in extensions of a 6th while teaching scale harmonization?

Here's how it works ....1st understand this - in a major scale that has 7 different notes we can play a full chord with each of these 7 notes - so we can play the scale in chords.

you take a C major scale C D E F G A B

to derive the I chord or C major you take every other note ....C E G - first you take a triad - 3 notes then you can make a 4 note chord ...C E G B ...this spells a C triad or C major 7 chords respectively.

next to the D chord - take every other note in the C major scale starting on D .... D F A C .. D minor 7 or as a triad D Minor ...

do this for all 7 notes of the C major scale and you will have a harmonizing chord scale.

I = C major triad or Cmaj 7

ii - D minor triad or D minor 7

iii - E minor triad or E minor 7

IV - F major triad or F major 7

V - G major triad or G 7

vi - A minor triad or A minor 7

vii - B minor b5 triad or B minor 7 b5


here are some general music theory rules pertaining to these 7 chords.

the V chord (G) leads to the I chord (C)

the vii chord (bm7 b5) is the same as the V chord but a more complex sounding lead to I chord (C)

ii (Dm) is a good subsititute for the IV (F) chord.

vi (Am) is called the "relative minor" in the key of C major.

The 4 most popular chords used in pop/rock/ country songwriting in a major key are the I (Cmaj), IV (F maj) , V (Gmaj or G 7) and vi (Am) ....the ii (Dm) would be the next most used.

[WorshipBassist]

I am still having trouble understanding, would someone post a link to an Internet lesson/explanation on the subject?

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by WorshipBassist

I am still having trouble understanding, would someone post a link to an Internet lesson/explanation on the subject?

First I did not find an Internet site beyond this. Chord Formulas Notice all major chords have a natural 3 note. All minor chords have a b3 or flatted third interval and all dominant chords have a b7 or flatted seventh interval. And yes all diminished chords have a b3, b5 and the seventh are b7 or bb7. See that first, then.......

All that chart is showing you is some of the chords that can be found in the key of C. Now just talking about the the C chord (C-E-G) then the 6th and the 7th notes that were added to get the C, C6 and Cmaj7 chords. If you do not read standard notation, it's going to be a chore to understand that chart.

The C chord notes shown are C-E-G+C or the R-3-5-8.
The C6 chord notes are.........C-E-G+A or the R-3-5-6.
The Cmaj7 notes are............C-E-G+B or the R-3-5-7

Just another way of showing how the last note gives more to the chord. Best way to "see" this is to know what notes make a C chord, the C-E-G or R-3-5 intervals of the C major scale and if you add another C (8) you get a full chord having an octave C, i.e. two C's.

Then for the C6 you have to get a 6th note into the picture. So C-E-G+A makes a R-3-5-6 or C6 chord.
Then for the Cmaj7 you have to get a major 7 into the picture and B is that 7th note, R-3-5-7 in the Cmaj7 chord.

This may turn on the light. Basic building blocks to make chords. I think that is what your instructor is trying to get across - not how to harmonize the key of C. If that is his focus ask about the importance of the sixth chord. I still think the chart is too complicated for where you are on your journey. But, that is only my opinion.

Basic Chords

• Major Triad = R-3-5 .............C
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5............Cm
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5..Cdim

7th Chords

• Maj7 = R-3-5-7...................Cmaj7
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7............Cm7
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7........C7
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7..Cm7b5 or a C with a little circle that has a strike through the circle.
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7 C with a little circle without the strike through.

Hope that helps.

[Groove Master]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

I read your post. I understand 'functional harmony'.


A G6 has no minor seventh interval above the root and is therefor NOT a G13 chord.


Looking at the Professor's worksheet, he's not interested in functional harmony - the chords are labeled CM7, G6, B^ø7, etc.

If the Professor was interested in 'functional harmony', he'd be using I7, iim7, V7, etc for chord labels.

First by using 1st,2nd... I'm pretty sure he/she is talking about degrees which is written also on the chart and yes roman numbers should have been used.

About Dmin6 and G6 been wrong imo on the chart here is my explanation:
You can use a x6 or xmin6 chord when you don't have a minor seventh in your stack. In the case of the minor chords built on the major scale ,all of them have a minor 7, so no minor 6th chords can be built from the major scale. The other reason to prove my point is that the x6 chord is used to avoid the cluster interval in the first inversion when you have a major seventh as the fourth tone and you subsitute the major 7th by the 6th. Your example of the end of the Beatles song a good example of the I6 been used to enhance the triad chord into a fourth-part chord without problem. In the case of Dmin6 and G6 you don't have this problem because you have actually acces to the minor 7th interval in the stack that make you use the first inversion without problem in the upper register by having a whole-tone interval instead of the half-tone.

Also by harmonic function and probably melodic function there is little chance that you'll have a C# played over the Dmin and a F# played over the G6 in the key of C. These 2 chords have there own minor 7th in the stack and no 6th should be played without the 7 which make them a 13th instead.

I hope you understand the differences and my point of view ;-)

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by Groove Master

First by using 1st,2nd... I'm pretty sure he/she is talking about degrees which is written also on the chart and yes roman numbers should have been used.

I believe we agree.

Originally Posted by Groove Master

About Dmin6 and G6 been wrong imo on the chart here is my explanation:
You can use a x6 or xmin6 chord when you don't have a minor seventh in your stack. In the case of the minor chords built on the major scale ,all of them have a minor 7, so no minor 6th chords can be built from the major scale.

Sure you can build a four note chord without a minor seventh. These are termed "Add" - Add2, Add6, Add9, Add6/9. These most likely were not used during the Baroque or Classical period. But the way the Professor is labeling, it suggests the modern Jazz/Pop period that we now live in. No one uses iim7, V7, etc. in a Jazz chart. Added note chords are alive and flourishing on today's music.

Originally Posted by Groove Master

The other reason to prove my point is that the x6 chord is used to avoid the cluster interval in the first inversion when you have a major seventh as the fourth tone and you substitute the major 7th by the 6th. Your example of the end of the Beatles song a good example of the I6 been used to enhance the triad chord into a fourth-part chord without problem. In the case of Dmin6 and G6 you don't have this problem because you have actually acces to the minor 7th interval in the stack that make you use the first inversion without problem in the upper register by having a whole-tone interval instead of the half-tone.

Not understanding this. Perhaps you are talking about, for instance, the iii chord (i.e. Eminor, from the example) and adding an interval of a sixth above the root - E to C, giving a chord spelling of E, G, B, C. The problem is that there are now to groups of intervals, E to B, AND G to C that are "fighting" to establish a Root. Being in the Key of C Major, I believe that the G to C will win out and more strongly imply that the Root Note is C. This also applies to the vi chord, the root is weakend in favor of the Added Six (F) and making the chord a IV7 in first inversion. I believe this is why the Professor left the added six to the iii (Em) and vi (Am).

Originally Posted by Groove Master

Also by harmonic function and probably melodic function there is little chance that you'll have a C# played over the Dmin and a F# played over the G6 in the key of C. These 2 chords have there own minor 7th in the stack and no 6th should be played without the 7 which make them a 13th instead.

But we've found examples of Added Note chords with NO Sevenths.

Originally Posted by Groove Master

I hope you understand the differences and my point of view ;-)

I think I know where you are heading.