The most important lesson is missing from the internet

[FretlessMainly]

Originally Posted by ics1974

I think this is because I am used to covering others bass lines so I lock in with the original bass line in my head. I want to start creating my own bass lines, grooves and locking in with the drummer.

Then exactly what you need is a bassless track with drums only. What you have is a blank canvas and you need to start throwing some paint on it. If you don't like it, throw it away and start a new one.

At this point, I think you have enough of an idea of Flea's feel that you should probably focus on creating your own lines with his feel in the back of your mind. Your goal is to create your own lines, so you need to let yourself come out in the context of a drum groove. The only solution is to continue creating piles of poop until, guess what? A gem comes out. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Give it a few months of focused practice with drum parts only. Find yourself; it's there somewhere. Best of luck - it's hard work, but the rewards are fantastic.

[Ewo]

Originally Posted by ics1974

I hear what you guys are saying but there must be tips or ideas people can share with examples. Also if you are jaming to jam tracks or drum machines then it's only a one sided relationship so there must be a way to provide lessons on this topic.

Well, I can suggest a good exercise; you can do this with a drum machine or even just a metronome.

Choose a relatively simple groove pattern, well within your technical limit; your focus needs to be on rhythmic placement and not on making the pitches. Play it with the drum machine or click.

First play on top of the beat; repeat the pattern for at least a full minute.

Then play behind the beat, for a full minute.

Then ahead of the beat, for a full minute.

It's harder than it sounds--well, at least for me! But a big part of locking with a drummer is the ability to place your pulse in relation to the drummer's.

[ics1974]

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

Then exactly what you need is a bassless track with drums only. What you have is a blank canvas and you need to start throwing some paint on it. If you don't like it, throw it away and start a new one.

At this point, I think you have enough of an idea of Flea's feel that you should probably focus on creating your own lines with his feel in the back of your mind. Your goal is to create your own lines, so you need to let yourself come out in the context of a drum groove. The only solution is to continue creating piles of poop until, guess what? A gem comes out. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Give it a few months of focused practice with drum parts only. Find yourself; it's there somewhere. Best of luck - it's hard work, but the rewards are fantastic.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[JimmyM]

How to lock in with a drummer:

Keep good time and listen.

Done.

Not that it's important to always be locked in lockstep with the drummer, though. There are some awesome tunes where the bass player just plows right over the drummer. Many of them are some of the world's greatest songs. The bass player keeps good time, though. As long as you keep good time and play things that sound good in the context of the style of music you're playing, that's what's important.

[jeffbonny]

It's practical to assume there are five basic places to play the time:

way ahead of the beat
a little ahead of the beat
right down the middle of the beat
a little behind the beat
and way behind the beat

Understanding this basic principle and developing the ability to hear where in relation to the center of the beat other players are playing the time will take you far. And not just where the the drummer is at either. Time is everyone's responsibility and "locking" is something you should do with everyone on stage. The contrast and tension of different instruments playing the time in different places gives an ensemble life. You can intellectualize about it and work through method books till the cows come home but the only way to really learn it is to experiment playing with other musicians.

When you practice alone working with a metronome to find the center of the beat will probably be a lot more useful than trying to practice locking with someone who isn't there. Jeff Berlin is right when he says a metronome won't give you good feel but it will without mercy show you the center of the beat.

"Locking" with the drummer is not something I usually think about much unless I'm playing with a lousy one. Lately I've been playing rootsy storytelling songs and in that situation if I think about "locking" with anything it's with the intent of the lyric to better support the story. The idea that the bass player "locking" with the drummer first and foremost is some kind of holy grail is, to borrow Hal Galper's expression, "student thinking". It's for sure worth considering and developing but don't get stuck there.

[MarkMgibson]

I think it isn't mentioned often because it can only be gained by practical experience. Metronomes, drum machines - they won't help you at all. You need to play with a good drummer as often as possible and it will all fall into place. There's no book or "method" than can help you with this.

[BassChuck]

Locking with the drummer it a 2 part concept. In the first part you must have control of your technique. The difference between locking in with a solid groove or pocket and not being quite together is a difference in milliseconds. In other words, have the technique and knowledge of your instrument to put the note exactly where it belongs... exactly.

After that comes the art. Having listened to many hours of music (whatever style you want) and having the feel of what it is to play in the style. No short cuts here. As Mingus said, you gotta get it in your soul.

The possible 3rd step is getting next to musicians who understand all this and have put in the work and time to get there and care about it, work for it, talk about it, experiment to find the best way.

Having the best chops in the world won't get it if you don't understand what to play. And if you haven't mastered the instrument, you can't groove no matter how much you've listened, or how big your soul.

[DaninTexas]

As someone who played drums for 20 years - I always was best friends with my bass player. There was me and my bass player vs the rest of the world (band or audience). I am hoping that now I am learning bass (near 2 months) that this will give me a leg up in locking in with the drummer of any group I will play with.

[ics1974]

Originally Posted by DaninTexas

As someone who played drums for 20 years - I always was best friends with my bass player. There was me and my bass player vs the rest of the world (band or audience). I am hoping that now I am learning bass (near 2 months) that this will give me a leg up in locking in with the drummer of any group I will play with.

I think you are at a great advantage. Maybe I should learn some drums.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by ics1974

I think you are at a great advantage. Maybe I should learn some drums.

It does not hurt your bass playing, for sure. I started on drums and no doubt it's been a big advantage to me as a bassist.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by DaninTexas

As someone who played drums for 20 years - I always was best friends with my bass player. There was me and my bass player vs the rest of the world (band or audience). I am hoping that now I am learning bass (near 2 months) that this will give me a leg up in locking in with the drummer of any group I will play with.

I was lucky in that respect too, as my brother played drums and we jammed together all the time from when we were kids. I play guitar mostly, but I always watch the drummer more than anyone else, and I try and place myself close to the drummer on-stage whenever possible.

Drum machines and metronomes are okay for practise, but in the end, you need that real human interaction as often as possible. If you know a drummer, jam with him as often as you can. When it comes to locking in with a drummer, experience really is your best friend - there's no real substitute for human interaction. Machines just don't cut it.

[Groove Doctor]

Originally Posted by DaninTexas

As someone who played drums for 20 years - I always was best friends with my bass player. There was me and my bass player vs the rest of the world (band or audience). I am hoping that now I am learning bass (near 2 months) that this will give me a leg up in locking in with the drummer of any group I will play with.

For sure!! I've played a bit of drums and it def helps. I think about what the drummer is listening for or needs me to play and play that. Instant pocket!!