Most Important Scales and Chord's to learn

[magnusdeus123]

I'm recently following practicing scales , modes and chords in every key , with a different key everyday , and doing it using Pacmans method .

The Scales I aim to know in and out by the end of some time are ;

Major(Ionian) , N.Minor(Aeolian) , Dorian , Mixolydian , Lydian , Phyrgian , Locrian , Melodic Minor , Harmonic Minor .

Practicing these scales in a single key everyday , using pacmans method really proves to be quite taxing , and I think do such a large amount of material on the same day isnt really helping . From what I've read online too , it seems that the majority of these scales are not even used widely in popular music . So I've prepared a set of levels I'm thinking I'll go through for hte next few months (or years.....) , in order to get this down . Let me know if you guys find it ok ;

Level I - Beginner - Practice and become perfect in Ionian and Aeolian Modes of every key . Practice all chords which relate to these scales ( Maj , Maj 7 , Min , Min 7 )

Level II - Intermediate - Practice and become perfect in Ionian , Aeolian , Mixolydian and Blues Scale of every key . Add the relative chord of Dom. 7th to the practice schedule .

Level III - Veteran - Add Dorian , Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor , and the added chords (Maj/Min7)

Level IV - Elite - Add remaining Modes , Chordal practice of 9ths and 13ths added .

Tell me what you guys think of this form of schedule , and let me know .

[dlloyd]

It depends.

What level are you at right now? What are your aims? What sort of music do you like?

Judging from the way you've classified the scales, I'm guessing you're a beginner (correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, you'd get a heck of a lot more mileage out of learning songs than worrying about attaining an 'elite' knowledge of the Locrian mode.

As a beginner, I'd concentrate on learning the Ionian, Aeolian, (but call them major and natural minor for the time being) and the minor pentatonic (the blues scale is just a modification of this).

Chords, concentrate on major and minor, and add the sevenths (minor, major and dominant).

Use them to warm up, before learning songs that you enjoy. Try to think about how the chords and scales apply to the songs.

When you feel you have these down, add the dorian and mixolydian modes, possibly the lydian too. When you practice them, think of them in terms of how they differ from the major and minor scales starting from the same root, rather than thinking of them in terms of how they relate to their relative major scale.

[Lorenzini]

It's a great idea to learn all of those scales. Of course, also learn songs while you are studying. As far as, "What are you goals?" Well, no matter what your goals, you can still be a studied musician - it can't hurt to have too much knowledge, but it certainly can hurt if you lack it.

A lot of the time, unless you're playing a fixed genre where you have memorized all of the standard tunes, theory is what makes you a true professional or a dilettante amateur. Which are you?

I'm not trying to flame the poster above me, but imo nothing should stop the pursuit of knowledge or facility of their instrument!

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

I'm not trying to flame the poster above me, but imo nothing should stop the pursuit of knowledge or facility of their instrument!

The concern I'd have is that, as a beginner, he would be better served by learning to apply the basics rather than aiming to have an advanced knowledge of scales without knowing how to apply them... or, for that matter, knowing if he will ever apply them.

[jweiss]

If your goal is to play jazz (bass lines and soloing) I think the most important modes to start with are:

Ionian
Mixolydian
Dorian
Lydian

In that order.

Equally important is to understand which scales go with which chords and to have a good knowledge of major and minor harmony.

Cheers,

Jeff

[magnusdeus123]

Actually , It's kinda weird , but the first reply was pretty much right on ;

I really lack as far as knowledge of songs go . The reason I want to focus on theory and technique more is that I feel , and I might be wrong , that that'll develop my skills enough to a point that I will be able to serve any genre of music well enough . Right Now , I dont have a problem doing songs from any genre , but actually doing them is not something I find that interesting . It's almost like in my head , It's kinda set that learning theory and scales and all that jazz *mind the pun* will give me earlier advantages in these things rather than a solid knowledge of say......every RHCP songs basslines . I dont have any transcribing problems either , it's just a plain......investment based decision I guess . But you guys tell me if I'm wrong here .

As far as theory goes , I've have figured out , and memorized theoractically the intervals and differences in all hte scales I've listed above , their connection to the major scale , how each major scale has a relative minor and all that stuff . I've already sunk some time into it , and I can tell you the notes of any scale , not off the top of my head , but over a 5 sec calcuation...

From what I've figured out , It'd help if I kinda try to make the best of the both points of view's and start keeping a steady rate of learning new songs as well as practicing the most major scales I shall need . This is what I've shorted it down to ;

Ionian
Aeolian
Blues

and after I'm good with them , move onto H. Minor , M.Minor and Dorian , Mixolydian , Lydian . From what you guys are talking about it seems that Phrygian and Locrian are never used . Can someone kinda explain that move fully , about the locrian and phrygian modes not being used that often .

Also , as far as my musical tastes go , I wouldnt mind any specific genre , as long as it has the melodic bassline style of Geezer butler , or something in and around that section .

[DocBop]

What's the old joke... If sex is a pain in the ass you're doing it wrong. Well if practicing scales is a bore then you're doing it wrong.

IMO people don't realize there are two aspects of learning scales/modes/arpeggios etc. First is the physical, then there should be the musical. Trouble is too many don't stop working on the physical and don't get to the musical. That can lead to making your playing sound like scales or exercises and not musical. People also play scales, but don't seem to really listen to them other than for the bad note that jumps out.

In general it take the body between 10-100 repetitions to learn a new physical move like a scale fingering pattern. So learn the pattern, learn it in two octaves, practice it in intervals and sequences get it under your fingers so you can do whatever you need to with it. As you're doing this sing the scale while you play, sing the sequences as you play get that sound in your ear. Focus on the note names, interval names locations. This will help you master the scale especially do this with major and natural minor. Know those scales inside out, they will become your point of reference for learning other scales and modes.

Now once you know a scale fingering and the notes and sound of the scale, time to start making music with it. The sequence playing of the scale you did learning the physical part is a good starting point. Make melodies up, make basslines up, try soloing with it. Play the chord the scale relates to and make music with the scale, get that sound in your ear. What notes of the scale do you like, don't like. Play the arpeggio(s) for the chord see where they are in the scale pattern. More playing music and finds approach notes to those arpeggios notes. Relate the scale to songs and bass lines you know already see how others use that scale. Transcribe some song or piece of a solo that uses that scale. Doing all this replaces just running up and down a scale in your practice. Just running up and down a scale now becomes just a warmup exercise.

Think about how classical musicians are taught, their training has evolved over 100's of years. They are taught a scale in a position. Then some interval studies and sequences to get the scale under thier finger. Then they play etudes and music using that scale. They get to making music with the new tools as soon as possible. If you're playing music that is your technique practice. Need to work on more advanced technique play more advanced music that requires you use the technique. The the tough part of a song and turn it into your technique practice untill you have it.

Play music, your grandmother is only one who hears you play a scale and says that's nice.

[jaebee]

I would just advise that if you want to have a begginner, medium, hard, expert level like guitar hero or something, that you learn scales by learning chords.

that is to say practicing major / minor chords in every key (i usually just go major minor going up a half step for each chord in one box position)

then maj7 min7 dom7 m7b5, the same way as above (doing as many fingerboard boxes as you can, it will ggive you any voicing you could ever want)

then 6 chords an 9 b9 chords

then 13 chords

then abstract chords

you should be learning the chord shape itself, the arpegio to the chord, the arpegio of the corresponding scale, and the fill in notes of the corresponding scale. then youjust learn to associate names with scales, and scales with chords, and names with chords (obviously) and its easy, provided you know the voicings and root notes (or starter notes)

and docbop, while i agree playing music is good to learn technique, its not always good for learning theory (along with theory yes but alone no) and something can be said about knowing the fingerboard in general, whether its by scales and chords or songs and music, you need inspiriational playing to make either sound good

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by jaebee

I would just advise that if you want to have a begginner, medium, hard, expert level like guitar hero or something, that you learn scales by learning chords.

that is to say practicing major / minor chords in every key (i usually just go major minor going up a half step for each chord in one box position)

then maj7 min7 dom7 m7b5, the same way as above (doing as many fingerboard boxes as you can, it will ggive you any voicing you could ever want)

then 6 chords an 9 b9 chords

then 13 chords

then abstract chords

you should be learning the chord shape itself, the arpegio to the chord, the arpegio of the corresponding scale, and the fill in notes of the corresponding scale. then youjust learn to associate names with scales, and scales with chords, and names with chords (obviously) and its easy, provided you know the voicings and root notes (or starter notes)

and docbop, while i agree playing music is good to learn technique, its not always good for learning theory (along with theory yes but alone no) and something can be said about knowing the fingerboard in general, whether its by scales and chords or songs and music, you need inspiriational playing to make either sound good

In general there are about 100 chords to learn (that's counting 12 keys.) Working on one or two chords a week its a couple year process. One should know their basic scales and arpeggios in two octaves first. Then it only requires about 15-20 minutes a day to work on the chord/scale of the week. Basically each day play the scale over two octaves, play the arpeggio (full up to the 13th) over two octaves, Then pick a pattern to do the scale in over two octaves. Also when doing the scale/arp'/pattern take a simple chord pattern like ii-V-I and adjust for the chord being worked on cycle thru the keys playing the scale/arp'/pattern. Important when the chord changes go to the closest note for the next chord. Stop and figure it out if necessary. Last spend a few minutes just improvising with the scale.

I can hear you now that sounds like way more work than can be done in 15-20 minutes. Yes is it, so do each part for a couple minutes and stop. Write down where you stopped on each part. Then the next day pickup where you left off. Over the week you will cover everything and during the week you might be enjoying some part of this and give it a little more time. It will take a couple years to cover all 100 chords, but they get easier after you have been through all the chords in one key. The main thing is doing it DAILY even if only for a few minutes and pickup where you left off the next day.

Doing this teaches the scales, arp's, fretboard knowledge, ear training, and builds improv skills for an investment of only a few minutes a day.

[magnusdeus123]

Hey Listen Doc , I wanted to get this out of my head for a while .

The technique that is mentioned over in the Pac Mans scale method , how viable is it in use , because using that I often find myself doing scales in territories I would rarely use to get that tonality out , and it's kinda like.....I do understand that his idea is rather to figure out the keys in relation to any position on the fretboard , but it's kinda like.....I never think I'm gonna need some of the patterns mentioned there . I might be wrong at this though , but what are you thoughts on that , because doing a scale all across the fretboard pattern kinda screws up the tonality and the sound associated with that scale kind a bad , beacuse starting a C major on the A really makes it sound more like a minor than anything else . Isnt it more apt just to have your fingers adept enough to fly to a certain position , closest to where they are at the moment , for eg. , If I'm play in D , and I'm using the 5th fret on the 3rd string as a basis for that chordal pass , and if it changes to lets say F# on a higher ocatave , I mean naturally wouldnt I want my hand to move 3 steps high and start playing from there considering that F as a tonal centre ?? What are you thoughts about that ??

And I do improvise and make more melody rather than just run up and down scales . The only reason I want to do that is because even my melodies are constricted within the certain keys that I know well , and I want to expand my levels , which is why I want to get serious about scales .

Anyways , it seems I'd be right on target with practicing the major and minor scales , along with their respective chords/arppegios , and some improv for a while rather than overloading myself with a ton of scales .

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by magnusdeus123

Hey Listen Doc , I wanted to get this out of my head for a while .

The technique that is mentioned over in the Pac Mans scale method , how viable is it in use , because using that I often find myself doing scales in territories I would rarely use to get that tonality out , and it's kinda like.....I do understand that his idea is rather to figure out the keys in relation to any position on the fretboard , but it's kinda like.....I never think I'm gonna need some of the patterns mentioned there . I might be wrong at this though , but what are you thoughts on that , because doing a scale all across the fretboard pattern kinda screws up the tonality and the sound associated with that scale kind a bad , beacuse starting a C major on the A really makes it sound more like a minor than anything else . Isnt it more apt just to have your fingers adept enough to fly to a certain position , closest to where they are at the moment , for eg. , If I'm play in D , and I'm using the 5th fret on the 3rd string as a basis for that chordal pass , and if it changes to lets say F# on a higher ocatave , I mean naturally wouldnt I want my hand to move 3 steps high and start playing from there considering that F as a tonal centre ?? What are you thoughts about that ??

And I do improvise and make more melody rather than just run up and down scales . The only reason I want to do that is because even my melodies are constricted within the certain keys that I know well , and I want to expand my levels , which is why I want to get serious about scales .

Anyways , it seems I'd be right on target with practicing the major and minor scales , along with their respective chords/arppegios , and some improv for a while rather than overloading myself with a ton of scales .

I will give a real short answer I have a lot to do for next couple days, but I figure this thread will still be around I can go into detail then.

I see everything as a building up process, we learn a piece of knowledge learn as much as we can about it, the move to next. In learning the next we have the first piece as a point of reference so next piece ends up being less to learn because we learn the differences.

I agree with you that just sitting and learning a ton of scales basically at the same time the info doesn't stick and it gets boring. I say learn the basic scales and way to practice them and to use them. Then when learning a new scale you look back and less to learn. Like major scale, next learn the Lydian mode. Very useful and to me I just need to learn that the 4th gets raised and I have Lydian. I can then do all the things I did to learn major and try them on Lydian and see how they sound. I can start making decisions on what I like and don't like about Lydian and look for ways of using it. Same thing with Dorian if I have really worked hard on natural minor, I only need to learn is the 6th degree is raised and like major take all the things I did with natural minor and apply them to Dorian. I find that in long run doing that I have learned more than a fingering pattern and a basic rule of when to use it. As you continue on learning more scale is fast and you tend to focus on the different notes when you practice so your ear get the sound of the new colors.

So that a bit of how I think. I have to be honest I need to read PacMan scale article, since so many reference it. I started to once got busy and haven't finished it. That is why I never talk about it, I don't want to talk about something I'm unfamiliar with.

Talk to ya'll a few days.

[jaebee]

i agree with the above, the challenge is learning how to tranistion from one modal sound to another when soloing and improvising, which is to say to know which intervals to sharp / flat and in what orders to do it (ie shifting the key through scale use), this also plays into progression, ie if you are ii V i then you maybe want to be playing a dorian over the entire thing, but altering specific intervals of the dorian for a beat or two of the change

also, while it is good to learn the chords as is in each key, it is also good (and quicker but less complete) to learn root position patterns, and expand them to their inversions, that way if you know 1 or 2 keys, you know them all (if you can find the root or inversion note) that is how i started, and it did a lot more for me than learning each chord by name would have (ie Cmaj7 being CEGB)

[Grinky]

Originally Posted by DocBop

What's the old joke... If sex is a pain in the ass you're doing it wrong. Well if practicing scales is a bore then you're doing it wrong.

IMO people don't realize there are two aspects of learning scales/modes/arpeggios etc. First is the physical, then there should be the musical. Trouble is too many don't stop working on the physical and don't get to the musical. That can lead to making your playing sound like scales or exercises and not musical. People also play scales, but don't seem to really listen to them other than for the bad note that jumps out.

In general it take the body between 10-100 repetitions to learn a new physical move like a scale fingering pattern. So learn the pattern, learn it in two octaves, practice it in intervals and sequences get it under your fingers so you can do whatever you need to with it. As you're doing this sing the scale while you play, sing the sequences as you play get that sound in your ear. Focus on the note names, interval names locations. This will help you master the scale especially do this with major and natural minor. Know those scales inside out, they will become your point of reference for learning other scales and modes.

Now once you know a scale fingering and the notes and sound of the scale, time to start making music with it. The sequence playing of the scale you did learning the physical part is a good starting point. Make melodies up, make basslines up, try soloing with it. Play the chord the scale relates to and make music with the scale, get that sound in your ear. What notes of the scale do you like, don't like. Play the arpeggio(s) for the chord see where they are in the scale pattern. More playing music and finds approach notes to those arpeggios notes. Relate the scale to songs and bass lines you know already see how others use that scale. Transcribe some song or piece of a solo that uses that scale. Doing all this replaces just running up and down a scale in your practice. Just running up and down a scale now becomes just a warmup exercise.

Play music, your grandmother is only one who hears you play a scale and says that's nice.

Thanks DocBop, you said it all! Just when I was getting lost in mindless trudging through my scales... Time to get back to work! ... mindful work.