Moving From Funk to Jazz... How To Do It??

[Sloop John D]

Originally Posted by jeffbonny

So you got past your "brick wall" with a book? By your own account no.
The OP is new to this, his wall is likely years away. He's better served listening first which will give a book like yours context. It's worthy addition to the library of any student of jazz bass but no book is where someone should start. Listening is.

The best method is to listen and study concurrently. Although I think it's assumed that if you're learning music, you're also listening to music. I don't know if anyone actually follows a book on music without listening to any music at all.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by jeffbonny

So you got past your "brick wall" with a book? By your own account no.

More than a little disingenuous there JEFE. I DID get past my brick wall by working on the concepts laid out in my book. THAT'S why I did a book. Feel free to continue to laboriuosly ignore ALL the advice I purvey about GETTING A TEACHER. But as always, do what you want. It's no skin off my nose. If you feel that anything I've suggested is so wrong headed as to constitute misinformation, ask the moderators to delete it.

[two fingers]

Take off anything that sparkles. Get a chip on your shoulder. Stop liking anything but jazz. Should be a good start.

Just kidding guys! I live in a music school town. The jazz guys from the college are so serious and superior I just had to give you guys the business a little bit!

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Some folks have had nice things to say about this and that.

Ed speak the truth !!!

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by SBassman

I have looked at samples of pages. The book looks like solid gold.
If only this had a tab version for the rest of us.

it would be a disservice to anyone who try to educate himself

[leegreenman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Vt65NzOQg

[Rev J]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Take off anything that sparkles. Get a chip on your shoulder. Stop liking anything but jazz. Should be a good start.

Just kidding guys! I live in a music school town. The jazz guys from the college are so serious and superior I just had to give you guys the business a little bit!

You forgot "Give up Electric Bass." I studied "Jazz and Contemporary Music" for 3 years and took a course in Jazz Improv when I went back to school. The main issue I have with jazz education as it is now is that the electric bass is treated like a second class instrument. That and everything that happened after 1962 is allegedly "Crap".

C/S,
Rev J

[jeffbonny]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

More than a little disingenuous there JEFE. I DID get past my brick wall by working on the concepts laid out in my book. THAT'S why I did a book. Feel free to continue to laboriuosly ignore ALL the advice I purvey about GETTING A TEACHER. But as always, do what you want. It's no skin off my nose. If you feel that anything I've suggested is so wrong headed as to constitute misinformation, ask the moderators to delete it.

The accusation of disingenuousness falls a long ways wide of the mark Edmaster. I was probably one of the first Talkbass participants to cut and paste your essay on Really Learning a Tune into his daily life so please get your nose back in joint. Not by any stretch am I ignoring the wisdom you've so copiously set down in this forum but maybe the OP isn't as well read? In any case nothing you've said here and now sways me from the position that jazz is an oral tradition and as such the first task of the student is to LISTEN. The second is to study in person with a live master. The particulars in your book may have been got from lessons with Joe but they aren't lessons with Joe.

Don't get me wrong some books have been invaluable to me starting with Ray Brown, Chuck Sher, Rufus Reid and more recently you (yes, I do honestly hold you and your book in some esteem). But books are not where I started; hearing Bill Evans is.

From the OP slapfunk987:

SO how do I start playing jazz/bebop?

Start by listening. Everything follows listening. Without the cornerstone of the music having taken shape in your mind's ear books are without meaningful context and likely to frustrate or bore. Granted you did ask about books and respecting that request as cart before the horse as it may be I'll offer up this suggestion.

[mjac28]

I think Miles or Duke Ellington would get a kick out of this conversation and end up getting doll eyes.

[Spin Doctor]

Originally Posted by mjac28

I think Miles or Duke Ellington would get a kick out of this conversation and end up getting doll eyes.

This discussion has been going on since jazz was created. Nothing new or unusual here. In fact on my facebook feed just today, there was a similar discussion going on and some very heavy people weighed in on the topic. The discussion concerned the perceived unwillingness of new jazz students to put in the time to study past jazz masters. I guess they want to be weaned on YouTube, etc. Who knows?

It's a given that times are different than the days when Coltrane, Doc Cheatam, Scott LaFaro, et. al were learning their craft. Back then you HAD to learn it from someone else. And maybe that's what is creating the perceived difference in the quality of the music...

There's more info available now, and the music has been analyzed to death so everyone thinks it's all figured out. You'd think that with all these digital resourses, learning jazz would be pretty straight forward... I'm finding out there is a lot to it, and it takes an extraordinary effort to be better than "just ok" at it. Just having the right vibe and feel is most of the battle and you can't get that from a book - it can't give you a clear idea of how to express a sentiment...

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing inherently evil about books. But I don't think that should be a persons first avenue to trying to access this music. Jazz was a collaboration in the olden days, in a community way, not an institutionalized way, both in the learning aspects and performing aspects. Now it's more isolated, prolly because as a genre, it's not that popular and it's hard to find people to hook up with that have a passion for it.

I guess in the long run, it's best to just learn it however we can, so we can at least keep it going...

[SBassman]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

it would be a disservice to anyone who try to educate himself

Nonsense.

[Ukiah Bass]

I've been playing bass for about 14 years. A late bloomer. Joined a jazz project almost a year ago, my first real go at the genre after playing the usual suspects. Jazz has challenged me like no other musical endeavor. I feel like the sound is just beginning to lodge in my mind. At least it doesn't feel anymore like I'm going to drown, but that could change in a heartbeat as this business about music theory seems to have no end of landmines. (I am having fun!)

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by SBassman

Nonsense.

It is a nonsense to not learn how to read music while trying to learn jazz or bebop ??? Seriously ...

Learning to read should be a priority to anyone who want to expend his knowledge in music. If I didn't read music it would have been way harder and took way more time to learn many things so simple when you can read.

[BuffaloBass]

Man, I hear ya SlapinFunk, I'd rather try and cope some of Wooten's heavy slap stuff than get near jazz; only 'cause it a-scares me!

Was given "Theory and Harmony" some time ago by one of the best teachers, and I still dont know what to do with it. Then the other night I decided to try and get my hands around Jamerson's lines in Darling Dear and I realized DAY-UM!!!!!

Its a bloody walking jazz line he's playing there and its BLOWING me away.

Had a local teacher dive me into theory and I was always wondering why, why? I now realize that I might have to hook up with him again, as Theory and Harmony inst sticking with me at all.

I might be able to cop Jamerson's line in a while, but I really need to know what he knew, i.e, the theory that gave him the ability to literally improv a line like that.

Good luck man! Listen and learn!

[vin*tone]

Scales and harmonic theory are a means to an end. Anthony Wellington can explain it far better than I could. Slapfunk, I think you might find this really helpful....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-GMSKM_HkE

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by slapfunk987

Well I've been playing bass for about 2 years now and for the most part I've been playing 70's, 80's funk music which contains primarily slap bass. After 2 years of playing this genre, I feel its time to move on and develop my chops and fingerstyle and take that to the next level.
The problem is I really dont know where to begin. R&B bass lines arent really that challenging (unless its Jamerson) and funk is pretty much under my belt. So I figured I go for jazz/bebop music. My bass inspiration (Marcus Miller) said that if you can play bebop, you can play anything.

SO how do I start playing jazz/bebop?????
I know you have to know about walking bass and I dont have a clue about scales, theories, or intervals. I have tried sitting down learning scales from Hal Leonard Bass Scale book but I find that learning scales is extremely boring and being that it is extremely boring I am not committing alot of it to memory. I find that there are alot of scales that I might not have a use for as well. So which ones are more important than others???
Should I just continue learning scales out of Scale books or what???
Can anyone recommend any books that can give you a pretty complete understanding of jazz walking???

First, listen to some jazz and,

Make sure you learn how to walk before running

[Spin Doctor]

To slapfunk987

Since I guess you may not be that familiar with older jazz, I’d start by checking out an album by Richard “Groove” Holmes called Comin’ on Home. I'm gonna suggest that just listen to, and learn all the lines on it to start. If I had to classify the album, I’d call it acid jazz.

Jerry Jemmott and Chuck Rainey play on it and it will help you bridge the gap between that slappin' funk and jazz. Chuck plays a really straight forward walking line on one song, Theme from Love Story, that grooves hard. That would be a good line for you to learn. The song’s a little corny, but the playing is awesome.

Plus learning Jemmott’s stuff will give you loads of lines to cop for your funk band. You just can’t go wrong, stealing from those two. Also, Jaco said that Jemmott was a huge influence on him.

You can preview the songs here, if you like:
http://www.amazon.com/Comin-Home-Ric.../dp/B000065TS6

Once you've gone through that, check out Miles album "Kind of Blue". Then just keep going...