Moving up and down the fretboard

lenosgood · #1 12-14-2010, 03:00 AM

Okay, I have a noob question for you guys. I've been practicing different scales, for example the minor pentatonic. I'm becoming more and more familiar with the different positions for whatever key I'm practicing in, but I'm still a little foggy on where to move to the next position when trying to move up and down the fretboard. Is there a proper way to do this? I've just been to move up trying to keep the notes in order. For example, if I'm playing the Gm pentatonic, I'll start at the root on the 3rd fret, play the first 3 notes, and move my first finger from the 3rd fret on the A string to the 5th fret, play up to the next string and repeat up to the next position, moving up like that, if that makes sense. Is this correct or should I be doing it differently? It sounds okay, but I'd hate to be teaching myself the wrong technique and have to relearn it later. Thanks.

MalcolmAmos · #2 12-14-2010, 05:56 AM

Depends on where you place the root note, i.e. on the 4th or 3rd string. If you place the root on the 4th string you play the forth string pattern then go to the 3rd string and play the notes from the pattern that are on the 3rd string then go to the 2nd string and play those notes and end up on the 1st string. Now go back down 1st string, 2nd string, 3rd string and end on the 4th string -- now go back up....

This may come in handy http://wemmick.net/dl/BCS.pdf

Have fun.

lenosgood · #3 12-14-2010, 06:16 AM

Yeah, I'm familiar with the patterns, I was just wondering what the proper way to string them into one long run was, like using half of each pattern or whatever and where the best place to move up into the next pattern is. But thanks for the link. It's definitely going into my music folder for future reference!

bareass · #4 12-14-2010, 07:47 AM

usually when jumping up or down the neck, in what ever you are playing, you want to have the next few steps in mind. for instance if you are jumping up the neck to reach one higher note, it only makes sence to play that note with your pinkie. that way you are already inposition to move back down the neck.

what i do is break it down into section, the before jump and the after jump. play comfotably what you want to play before you jump, and then play what you are going to be playing after you moved positions. if you think about it as two different sections, you'll know what position you feel most comfortable playing that passage.

hope that makes sence.

anytime i have a hard time with a jump or a run or passage, i always reak it up. play one bit, then the other. and when i have to those two bits perfect i join them together. and work on getting it to sound whole

Icculus · #5 12-14-2010, 07:57 AM

Pacman's Scale Method will definitely help with this. It uses all of the notes in the scale, so it may be more than you're looking for. I originally learned pentatonic scales using the CAGED sequence, which is more guitar based.

Notice how the notes of the scales overlap with the different positions.

"G" Form and "E" Form:

G--3-5------5---7--
D--3-5------5---- 8
A--3-5 -----5-----8
E--3---6 -----6--8

Notice how all your notes on the 5th and 6th frets are common between the two scale forms. With that, you can make riffs connecting the two scale forms into one. Apply this to all 5 forms, and you have connected all the notes.

mambo4 · #6 12-14-2010, 01:52 PM

Just to pick a Nit: In generally "up" and "down" the fingerboard refers to motion "up" towards the bridge and "down" towards the nut...think up and down in pitch...

I suppose what you describe would be more commonly called "string crossing" or moving "across" the fretboard...

as others have said there is no "correct" spot to cross form on string to the next.
It all depends on context - what you need to play before and after
- and ultimately you need the flexibility of seeing the pattern all over the neck...

+1 to Pacman's Scale practice method.

lenosgood · #7 12-14-2010, 02:06 PM

My bad...I meant moving from the nut toward the bridge, like playing a scale from the starting point on the low E string up to the highest tone on the G. How far up the scale do you go on each string I guess is what I'm asking.

bareass · #8 12-14-2010, 02:17 PM

i would start with two octave scales, the normal major/minors will be fine. you see you run out of strings quickly, and don't just do the G and A scales, play C scales starting on the third fret on the A string. for practice, the more movement (tward the bridge) the better. even if it is not feasible to do so. it will teach you the notes all along the neck, which is great practice.

saying the notes out loud is also good practice, so your not just learning the pattern.

also take different routes to the end note. ex. if you are playing a 2 octave scale in G, you can end on the 12th fret on the G string, or the 17th fret on the D string.

MalcolmAmos · #9 12-15-2010, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenosgood

My bad...I meant moving from the nut toward the bridge, like playing a scale from the starting point on the low E string up to the highest tone on the G. How far up the scale do you go on each string I guess is what I'm asking.

http://wemmick.net/dl/BCS.pdf
Look at pattern 1 and 2. Pattern 2 shares some frets with pattern 1. Pattern 3 will share some frets with pattern 2. No need in repeating those shared frets as you go up the neck. Cut and overlay all 5 patterns into one big pattern.

bareass · #10 12-15-2010, 09:21 AM

malcolm, what is the point of this post?

lenosgood · #11 12-15-2010, 09:25 AM

I get it. Go from pattern to pattern where you want. The secret is that there is no secret...

mambo4 · #12 12-15-2010, 09:50 AM

I think I understand a little better what you are asking

the answer is: about 4 or 5 frets, then cross to the next string...

Generally scale patterns/boxes/shapes are designed to keep your left hand in one position,
so each on each string the pattern covers a 4 (sometimes 5) fret range in the pattern.
so that you can play all the notes without moving your left hand*
The PDF malcom linked to exemplifies this.

Initially, most of us learn this way, and start 'thinking in boxes' as we learn to play.
"now I'm playing a C major Box....now I'm playing an E minor box..."
Which is an effective way to get started.

But ultimately you want to escape the boxes and "see" the whole scale all over the neck,
including the shapes of the scale's chord tone arpeggios
so that every possible choice is available to you
and you can fluidly shift to wherever you need to go

Which is why Pacman's Method is so valuable.
practice what he outlines and you will learn the scale all over the neck

^{* actually I move my left hand all the time even in a single position, especially in the lower frets, as my hands are not so big}

Chrispurchase · #13 12-18-2010, 07:00 AM

Learning TetraChords is also a great way to break out of the box shape patterns. here is a great article on how to learn them: http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2010/03...-combinations/

Bassmickeyd · #14 12-18-2010, 07:35 AM

I always felt playing chord triads so you're voicing the chord, up and down the neck a better way, and less scale like, to learn the neck. ..... 1,3,5,7 in major, minor, dem in all 12-tones will keep your hands and brain busy for a long while. Remember to connect each one to the other. So, if it ascends at one point it may descends to the next point.

lenosgood · #15 12-18-2010, 07:48 AM

Wow, there's enough info in this thread to keep me busy for years...see you in 2020!

Samsound · #16 12-18-2010, 09:44 PM

Essentially, it sounds like you need to learn to play "between the boxes". It's easy to mentally divide the fretboard into boxes that don't connect. Practice in the space between those boxes, and you should get closer to what you're looking for pretty quick. Some of the other suggestions here are great for taking on new approaches to learning the fretboard, which will open up your playing even more.

slybass3000 · #17 12-18-2010, 10:59 PM

Learning scales trough the fingerboard is very important for many reasons.

Your learn your notes and how to connect your positions which is a difficult thing to do. You have to focus on the quality of your sound while moving up and down. I usually always come back the exact same way as I went up as far as fingerings. I spend a lot of time finding the best way to do so. Find more then just one way to play your scales.

My next book will cover all that.

Chris K · #18 12-19-2010, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

http://wemmick.net/dl/BCS.pdf
Look at pattern 1 and 2. Pattern 2 shares some frets with pattern 1. Pattern 3 will share some frets with pattern 2. No need in repeating those shared frets as you go up the neck. Cut and overlay all 5 patterns into one big pattern.

Macolm, Since he's into pentatonics, we'd better make him start with the box method: play the major scale in ONE position starting on the middle finger (1 middle 2 pinky >next string 3 index 4 middle 5 pinky >next string 6 index 7 ring 8 pinky). In the pentatonic scale the fingering stays the same, just skip what you need to.

The patterns are great but I dislike the approach to learn them, since it relies on visual memorizing. They scare off beginners as you might notice from the OP''s reaction. We won't see him again before 2020

Essentially, these patterns mean to run a scale playing three notes per string. That's all there is to remember.

The easiest way to learn this is to start f.e. the G major scale with the index finger on the root, play g-a-b on the E-string, c-d-e on the A string, f#-g-a on the D-string, b-c-d on te G-string, each time starting with the index finger. After that, move up the G-scale playing a-b-c on the E-string, d-e-f# on the A-string etc. then b-c-d on E, e-f#-g on A etc. If you don't play a Fender, you may even move up all the way to fret 24

Going down, it's always pinky that goes to the lower string first.

All of this should never be done looking at patterns, and certainly not watching the fretboard, BUT BY EAR ONLY. Might be tedious in the beginning, but oh, what a reward!

Chris K · #19 12-19-2010, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrispurchase

Learning TetraChords is also a great way to break out of the box shape patterns. here is a great article on how to learn them: http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2010/03...-combinations/

Certainly, but not that way either, since also this involves too much visual memorizing. Far too complicated.

If you look at the three-notes-per-string method in my previous post, you will notice that any run of three notes on one string plus the jump to the next string (up or down) will constitute a tetrachord.

Once again: use your ears, grinding in those scales/tetrachords into your ears-to-muscles system.

For the record: don't know who 'invented' that method, but I learned it from a Billy Sheehan video.

lenosgood · #20 12-19-2010, 02:25 AM

Actually, I'm not just "into pentatonics", I just used them as an example. I also work on major and minor scales and am just starting to plink around with some of the modal scales. Now, THAT'S gonna take some time to get my head around. I do like playing the pentatonics though because they are fairly easy to learn and they pretty much sound good all the time, especially just practicing going from one pattern to another with Band In A Box.