Music school for bassists?

[Muss]

First, let me introduce myself, my name is Muss, and I've been playing bass for several years now, and I'm now looking for the right music school for me.

It's important to say that I'm looking for a school that "pays an extra attention" to the bass, meaning a school with a bass program (for instance MI in los angeles, or Berklee).
I'm already got some info on these schools:
Musicians institute in los angeles
LA music academy
The players school (jeff berlin's school)
and I'm waiting for an e mail response from Berklee for more info..

So if anyone as attended on the above bass programs, and could give me some more info that would be great!

so let me know of any school that fits in this criteria!


also,It's important to say I'm from Israel, so I'm looking for a school that will really prepare me for "the real world" and would be as close to the industry as possible ( this is why I think the los angeles schools are good, you are really close to the industry. honestly I just dont wanna graduate from a a kick ass school and just "go home", I wanna find jobs, and continue with the music!

thanks a million,
Muss

[Muss]

P.S
is this the right forum for this question?

[Snarf]

I would say don't waste time at a music school if you're there to learn. You should have a lot of crap together, be really really good, then go to music school to make connections and get gigs right off. Otherwise you'll probably just stagnate later on when you do start getting good, because people will already have a bias against your playing because they knew you when you started at school.

Take it from me, I've been there.

[casualmadness]

I graduated from MI several years ago; before they offered degrees. I'm torn on the issue. As for preparing you for the real world; no. Not really. I mean, sure, you are surrounded by other musicians and there is certainly an opportunity to learn and grow in that environment. But more people who attend those schools graduate and go home, than use it as a spring board into the pro's. Also, you have to bring your "A" game. Because there are some serious players in those environments. If you're not up to par, then no one really takes you seriously. Case in point; my roomate at MI. I practiced no less than eight hours a day. He went out every night. I hung out with musicains and wrote songsand practiced and learned. He drank a lot. No one took him seriously as a musician.
I would say that it depends on what you want to do. If you want to submerge yourself in music and you want to really study music at it's core level; and stardom is not something that you are chasing, try to get into Berklee. I say "try" because Berklee has some serious players. As for getting in, I don't think it is terribly difficult (disclaimer: I've never attempted it). But I have a few friends who went to Berklee, who were phenominal players, but they got put in the slow class pretty quick because certain crucial skills were not up to par. Things like sightreading especially, will get you left behind (from what I've been told).
MI is fun and it's a fun program but in all honesty, I learned more about music from private lessons and college. If being a musician is what you seek, I would go to Berklee.
If stardom is what you seek, start a band and get to work.
As for the other music schools; I have no clue about them. MI was fun but from a learning perspective, it isn't worth it. Of course I went at 17 and my parents paid for it.
So yes, I would absolutely do it again. But if I had to foot the bill...not a chance.

[Muss]

Originally Posted by Snarf

I would say don't waste time at a music school if you're there to learn. You should have a lot of crap together, be really really good, then go to music school to make connections and get gigs right off. Otherwise you'll probably just stagnate later on when you do start getting good, because people will already have a bias against your playing because they knew you when you started at school.

Take it from me, I've been there.

this an interesting thought...

where did you learn?


so, casualmadness, you're saying not to go to MI?

[j-raj]

What Snarf mentioned is pretty on target. Learn how to play, gig, book and hustle... then hit a well connected, credited and solid school or academy to form connections and hit the road.

I'm moving this thread to a different section... It's not really meant to be in [BG] Bassists.

Good luck.

[Mark Wilson]

Check out Humber College here in Toronto.
I'm currently there right now studying Bass for a Degree.

it's a killer school, with some of the best Musicians teaching.

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by Muss

this an interesting thought...

where did you learn?


so, casualmadness, you're saying not to go to MI?

I'm at Berklee.

[liback]

Hi
I will really like to recommend The Players School of Music in Clearwater, Florida (Jeff Berlin’s school). You will get instructions from the best bass player around based on well proven principals of music education. Be sure that you will have to work hard on the stuff they throw at you. I'd play bass for 20 years before I joined. I didn't know it was possible to improve that much in so little time.
Good luck.

Lars Idar Rygg
Norway

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Muss

First, let me introduce myself, my name is Muss, and I've been playing bass for several years now, and I'm now looking for the right music school for me.

It's important to say that I'm looking for a school that "pays an extra attention" to the bass, meaning a school with a bass program (for instance MI in los angeles, or Berklee).
I'm already got some info on these schools:
Musicians institute in los angeles
LA music academy
The players school (jeff berlin's school)
and I'm waiting for an e mail response from Berklee for more info..

So if anyone as attended on the above bass programs, and could give me some more info that would be great!

so let me know of any school that fits in this criteria!


also,It's important to say I'm from Israel, so I'm looking for a school that will really prepare me for "the real world" and would be as close to the industry as possible ( this is why I think the los angeles schools are good, you are really close to the industry. honestly I just dont wanna graduate from a a kick ass school and just "go home", I wanna find jobs, and continue with the music!

thanks a million,
Muss

Music school are only as good as the student they aren't magic. I've worked at and attended a couple music schools. Those that came worked hard, played at every chance possible, went to open counseling, played outside of school, practiced in-between, in other work lived and breathed music got a lot out of it.

It's not the curriculum the school offers they all teach basically the same thing. Some go to the school do the assignments and come out a little better. Others go as a way to get away from parents, crank it up, shred, ignore assignments, party, and waste their parents money. Then as I said the ones that look at the school as resource for being around other good players to play, jam, and ask questions of to well. The school gives you a chance to accelerate your learning by being about to spend a year or two with you instrument in your hand every waking moment.

Schools like MI and Berklee are expensive so you shouldn't go unless really prepared. Don't want to spend all that money to learn basics. You want to go to get the polish to become Pro. Some people go to these schools are great players to start with. They want a little more polish, some new ideas, but more important to get heard and make contacts. So honestly evaluate you skills and maybe consider getting a good teacher and work on your skills then go to a music school a year or so later.

Also I would say if you put your mind to it, any good college program can have the same results. It's all about submerging yourself in music daily. Sure most colleges are DB oriented and in long run that is good your get a more rounded education. DB by day and then focus on your BG at night. The MI's, Berklee's and others to keep drawing in students that can pay the big bucks have softened up their curriculum and started catering to students wants, versus their needs. Classes that used to be requirements at these school are now electives or gone completely.

Just to be complete some realize the main teacher at music school is being able to play and playing it the best teacher. So instead of going to music school they take the same money move to New York or L.A. get a pro teacher, then start playing and gig'ing every possible chance they can. They have enough money to do nothing but practice, take lessons, and play for a year or so. That is another way to learn, but takes someone who is very disciplined and can keep focused.

Bottom line any music school is only as good as you make it. It's up to you. They make the resources available, you have to go in and use them.

[Snarf]

The above is pretty much right on, but I would actually say that being in classes at a music school makes it HARDER to practice. You'll have lots of homework, lots of class hours (most of which have nothing to do with your instrument), rehearsals (which help ensemble playing but it's not really practice), etc. I look forward to winter break every year because I know that that's time where I can lock myself away and really practice the hell out of the stuff I had gotten the previous semester and just spend quality time with my instruments.

Oh yeah, and if you want to go to Berklee, or any other school, you should start on DB right now. There's maybe two BG players at Berklee that really matter, and they don't even get many gigs at all. I know all the top DB cats, and they're all over the place. Electric alone isn't enough to do it.

[Don't_Fret]

Originally Posted by Snarf

The above is pretty much right on, but I would actually say that being in classes at a music school makes it HARDER to practice. You'll have lots of homework, lots of class hours (most of which have nothing to do with your instrument), rehearsals (which help ensemble playing but it's not really practice), etc. I look forward to winter break every year because I know that that's time where I can lock myself away and really practice the hell out of the stuff I had gotten the previous semester and just spend quality time with my instruments.

Oh yeah, and if you want to go to Berklee, or any other school, you should start on DB right now. There's maybe two BG players at Berklee that really matter, and they don't even get many gigs at all. I know all the top DB cats, and they're all over the place. Electric alone isn't enough to do it.

I do agree with you about winter break. It's so hard to get everything in with all the homework, but I don't agree with you about the BG comment. Who are you to say who "matters" and who doesn't?

[Muss]

hey guys, thanks so much for the comments... you're really helping me!
I'm studying with a teacher and after some thinking, I find that the right way for me right now is what DocBop said( I was going to write this and than I saw you saying the same thing thought stealer!), I wanna prepare rewal good, and work real hard, so when I'll come there I won't be at the lowest level of each lesson, I like you guys said, get a polish

hmmm...
whats DB and what's BG ?

[hunta]

DB = Double Bass, BG = Bass Guitar.

Good advice from DocBop and others. I've never been to MI or Berklee, although I did seriously consider going to both at one time or another. Musical education in college is really really messed up in my opinion, and if you don't know exactly where you're at and where you want to go (in terms of skill/knowledge) then you can go to any music school and stagnate. (In fact, I would say this applies to all college programs to some degree, but that's another forum)

Personally, I ended up with a BA in Music Business from a state school (SUNY Fredonia). I just graduated in December 2007, and I've been playing BG for 15 years (I'm 28). Before I went to college, I was a pretty good bass player but I knew there were things I needed to learn. A couple years before I ended up going to school, I was looking into BIT, checked out the application process, my eyes glazed over a bit (I stunk at reading music, my theory knowledge was pathetic, but I covered it all up with technical skills and good ears), and I went and found a teacher to bring me up to par so I could apply. That didn't really work and I gave up on it.

When I finally went to college, I went to community college for a year first (I dropped out of HS and never took the SAT so I had to, but I'd recommend starting in community college to anyone). I started out as a Computer Science major, but I quickly decided I wanted to pursue music school. My 2nd semester I took a basic music theory class and worked really hard to learn as much as I could. That (and a 4.0) was enough to help me get into the Music Business program at another SUNY school.

After my 1st semester, I decided I wanted to get into the "Funk Band" class (taught/led by Jeremy Wall of Spyro Gyra). At this point, my actual music reading skills were still pretty terrible, and I knew I'd have to audition at the beginning of the next semester. I sought out help from another teacher at the school and took private lessons over the summer (focusing entirely on music reading). When audition time came around I was worried, but I managed to nail the audition (had to sight read a few tunes and jam on them with others auditioning, including a solo).

After 3 semesters I decided to transfer yet again, because the music theory classes were severely lacking (the main theory classes were dumbed down for the music business majors, and there was only 1 really bad teacher for the standard theory curriculum). I also really wanted to focus more on music and playing, and less on "unimportant business classes". I eyeballed a Music Performance program at another state school.

One problem: for the program at Fredonia I needed to pass an audition on DB. I didn't play DB. So, I met with the head of the program, explained my situation, made it clear I was willing to bust my ass to catch up, and I was accepted conditionally without an audition. The caveat was that I had to pass an audition at the end of my first semester.

I really did bust my ass, often practicing 4-5 hours a day on a horrendously bad student rental DB with a crappy fiberglass bow. I didn't get my own practice room like the other bass players, so I had to practice in whatever public rooms were free (usually next to the really loud horn players). I also had to endure the stuck-up classical kids (who were like 5 years younger than me) looking down on me because I didn't have my own expensive DB and bow, I didn't know squat about classical, and I didn't subscribe to the "music should be serene and formal and played in a tuxedo and if the audience claps at the wrong time they should be shot" philosophy of music.

Well I passed my audition, got into the Performance program, victory was mine!! Except I hated it and switched back to music business after 1 semester... If I hadn't (naively) pursued music performance I would have graduated a year earlier and ended up with basically the same degree. BUT!! I would have gone on thinking "I really should have done performance," I wouldn't know how to play DB, and I wouldn't have learned nearly as much in my college career.

So, if you got this far, here are my points:
1) Take an active role in your education.
2) If you're not learning what you think you should be, figure out FOR YOURSELF what you need to do to learn it.
3) You can't always depend on others for help (but if they can help, awesome!). This includes: professors, administrators, guidance counselors, parents, siblings, friends, fellow students, etc...
4) Question everything. If someone (professor, administrator) tells you something is true, and you think it isn't, FIND OUT. Continue checking external sources until you're satisfied that you've found the truth.
5) Read #4 again.
6) Work hard, even on things you don't think are that important. For example, when I had to summarize the 36 page Campaign Finance Reform Act of 2002 for a political science class (General Education credit) I thought it was absolutely retarded. When I had to memorize formulas for DAILY tests in Business Finance, I wanted to talk to the teacher out in the parking lot. But you know what, being able to understand a gigantic legal document came in real handy when I had to dispute a school loan consolidation company that was double billing me for my loan payments. Being able to check all the numbers because I had memorized all those formulas in Business Finance class came in real handy too.
7) Worry about what school/program you're going into, but not TOO much. Weigh the cost and benefits. Recognize that the "perfect" school for you probably doesn't exist (or you can't afford it).
8) Think long and hard about what you're going to do for $$$ when you graduate. Want to know how many of my friends graduated and went back to live with their parents? I don't have enough fingers to count with. Unemployment, it's not just for dropouts anymore.

Education is what you make of it, always. I'm sure I got more from my ~$5,000/yr education than the vast majority of ~$40,000/yr students at Berklee/BIT, because I wouldn't let myself get anything less.

ps, I don't have a music job, I work in IT.

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by Don't_Fret

I do agree with you about winter break. It's so hard to get everything in with all the homework, but I don't agree with you about the BG comment. Who are you to say who "matters" and who doesn't?

You have Whit Brown on your teachers list, so I'm assuming you go to Berklee. Guys who get constant gigs on DB are: Dan, Josh, Peter, Jeremy, Sam, Michael (though I think he's done with school) and those are just the ones I know. As for electric cats, all I can think of is Evan.

That "matters" comment was based on who's been getting gigs, and it hasn't been BG players. I know Dan picked up DB only 2 years ago, and he's a prodigy comper, so he's doing really really well now.

[bassandbeyond]

I currently teach at L.A. Music Academy, and I graduated from BIT 20 years ago, so maybe I can offer some perspective. Lots of good advice has been given here, especially by DocBop, but I have to disagree with those who suggest that you shouldn't go to a major music school until you are already a hot player. I was only 18 when I went to BIT, but I worked hard and was so inspired and pushed by being around great players that I can honestly say I improved more in that one year than I have in any other year of my life. It is true that if you are still a real beginner, you can learn the basics from just about any teacher anywhere, but if you're serious about getting better, you should take advantage of any opportunity to be in a musical "hotbed" environment like L.A. or N.Y.

Of course, for most people cost is a serious consideration. If you can really afford 4 years at a private college, then Berklee is probably an excellent choice. I think MI is also still a good school, although unfortunately some of the teachers that used to be there when I was a student are now gone(Gary Willis, Jeff Berlin, Steve Bailey, etc.). I really think L.A. Music Academy is one of the best kept secrets in music ed. Great teachers, small enrollment (i.e. more personal attention), and now they are even offering scholarships to bass students! Of course, I'm a little biased because I work there.

It seems that you are serious about your development, and you are doing thorough research on this important decision. Whatever you decide, you should be patient and work hard. Becoming a proficient and consistently employed musician is a long-term undertaking. Good luck!

[Spfairchild]

Originally Posted by bassandbeyond

I currently teach at L.A. Music Academy, and I graduated from BIT 20 years ago, so maybe I can offer some perspective. Lots of good advice has been given here, especially by DocBop, but I have to disagree with those who suggest that you shouldn't go to a major music school until you are already a hot player. I was only 18 when I went to BIT, but I worked hard and was so inspired and pushed by being around great players that I can honestly say I improved more in that one year than I have in any other year of my life. It is true that if you are still a real beginner, you can learn the basics from just about any teacher anywhere, but if you're serious about getting better, you should take advantage of any opportunity to be in a musical "hotbed" environment like L.A. or N.Y.

Of course, for most people cost is a serious consideration. If you can really afford 4 years at a private college, then Berklee is probably an excellent choice. I think MI is also still a good school, although unfortunately some of the teachers that used to be there when I was a student are now gone(Gary Willis, Jeff Berlin, Steve Bailey, etc.). I really think L.A. Music Academy is one of the best kept secrets in music ed. Great teachers, small enrollment (i.e. more personal attention), and now they are even offering scholarships to bass students! Of course, I'm a little biased because I work there.

It seems that you are serious about your development, and you are doing thorough research on this important decision. Whatever you decide, you should be patient and work hard. Becoming a proficient and consistently employed musician is a long-term undertaking. Good luck!

Hey Bassandbeyond,
I just got my scholarship/admissions packet yesterday for the LA Music Academy, and I plan on winning one of those full ride bass scholarships! Any insider TB advice you're able to give towards that end? Thanks!

[bassandbeyond]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

Hey Bassandbeyond,
I just got my scholarship/admissions packet yesterday for the LA Music Academy, and I plan on winning one of those full ride bass scholarships! Any insider TB advice you're able to give towards that end?

I'm not privy to the particular criteria for judging the scholarships, but I guess I'd offer you the same advice I would give to anyone getting ready to enroll: practice and study as much as you can in advance, because the curriculum moves pretty fast once you get here. Generally, most incoming students are relatively weak on reading and theory skills, so those might be areas to get a head start on...good luck!

[manbass]

PSOM Review Thread

I went and am going back again until my fingers fall off.

[Pete C]

I am at a loss right now. On one hand the only thing I want to spend the rest of my life doing is playing and composing music. My original plan was to do a double major in a performance degree and get an MBA in finance, but I realized that I couldn't actually do both well and would just be compromising myself. So how should I make decision? I have to choose between possibly making a living off of something I love, or definitely making a living off of something I feel nothing for and probably will end up hating. Can anyone else think of any other options.